When Wa Why?

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

mzer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
172
Reaction score
0
When did wa handles overtake western for folks in the knife community, and why did it happen? I still see that most shops which sell primarily high end Japanese gyutos to Western cooks, say Korin or MTC, tend to have 10 western for every wa, but shops for enthusiasts like JKI and JNS tend to be almost the exact opposite. It is a knerd thing or are there reasons I am not seeing?
 
Most people still think that if a knife doesn't have a full tang that it can't be any good. Mis-perception based on advertising. Also, I think that once people try a wa handle they realize that it is much more flexible (to me anyway) in the ways you can grip the knife.

Cheers
 
Wa gyutos are 2 to 4 ounces lighter than their yo-gyuto counterparts. Feels like a light saber.
 
I tried 2, still don't like them. They make the balance too blade heavy for my taste, and I prefer the feeling of a full tang. I know logically wa handles are just as solid, but they still feel flimsy to me, and with a full tang I feel more in control of the entire blade. Just my preference... However, I think bolsters are antiquated, too heavy, and make the balance too neutral. I'm hoping we'll see more bolster-less full-tang knives in the future, like the new Lamson collaboration knife. Can't wait for that.
 
I like simple Wa vs simple Yo mostly for aesthetic reasons. Custom - both can be gorgeous.
 
It is a matter of what you like.Many of the western handles are too small for my hands.Use a pinch grip so doesn't matter that much.Like the looks of the Wa & the length.Randy Haas comes to mind as yo handle master.Usually no bolster.reccess on front of wood for pinch grip,nice long comfortable handle out of exiotic materials.
 
I'm wishy-washy. I'm in a western handle phase right now. Rader comes to mind, as do Pierre and Randy. Marko and Hoss make pretty much perfect wa handles, as does Butch if you like a larger handle.

Both have their pluses and minuses, and I find I go for whatever I'm in the mood for at the time.
 
Wa gyutos are 2 to 4 ounces lighter than their yo-gyuto counterparts. Feels like a light saber.

Feel wise that isn't necessarily true, though. There is a concept in golf that is instructive called swingweight. It is indicative of the feel weight in motion and it takes into account that weight behind the balance point, or more specifically moving the balance point back, makes for a lighter feeling implement. In other words, adding lead tape under your grip makes the club lighter feeling in motion, which is likely true for a knife as well when in use as opposed to when it is being held and admired.

Anyway, my question was, perhaps, not well stated. Clearly looking at Japanese knife shops catering to the working kitchen trade there is still an emphasis on yo vs wa while in the knerd world things are reversed. I would love to hear not only why you prefer one or the other, but why you think that discrepancy exists. More along the lines of Iknowyourider's answer.
 
WA handles are a lot more agile in use. If you don't utilize varying grips then it really doesn't matter. I happen to prefer blade heavy as well so naturally WA is way to go for me.
 
I don't think wa has displaced western. I have both and like both. I will say that very handle-heavy knives aren't my cup of tea.
 
Anyway, my question was, perhaps, not well stated. Clearly looking at Japanese knife shops catering to the working kitchen trade there is still an emphasis on yo vs wa while in the knerd world things are reversed. I would love to hear not only why you prefer one or the other, but why you think that discrepancy exists. More along the lines of Iknowyourider's answer.

I think its mostly as was already stated. Until Japanese knives became popular...western handles were the only choices, and if it didn't have a full tang, it was probably going to be a pretty crappy knife. The 'full tang' thing has stuck around, even though its not necessary...and with it the preference for western handles in most production kitchens.

To illustrate the fact...I've had a number of facebook friends who go to or have gone to culinary school. When they saw my first kitchen knives...their first reaction was 'wow...nice blades, but...why no full tang??'.

Its ingrained in them.

On the balance issue...I think that's not a relevant point unless you're using light weight traditional or unstabilized handle materials. Every one of my stabilized wa handles I've made tips the scale at around 80g, and I've struggled with getting the balance past the choil on the knives they go to, lol. It almost invariably ends up at or just forward of the ferrule.
 
I prefer Western. Just personal preference, I feel like a Western is more a part of the knife, like it's one entity rather than wa handled knives, which feel like a knife and a handle
 
I like both but there is something about a perfect Yo handle (like on my Shig) that makes it feel like an extension of my hand - even though with a pinch grip that isn't very logical I know.

Of course, while many of my yo handled knives are excellent, none are quite like my yo Shig!
 
...Clearly looking at Japanese knife shops catering to the working kitchen trade there is still an emphasis on yo vs wa while in the knerd world things are reversed. I would love to hear not only why you prefer one or the other, but why you think that discrepancy exists...
My $0.02...pro kitchen staff does not equal knife nerd, so 1) they come to the shop with the same bias as retail consumer, 2) most wa- handle are higher end specialized knives (deba,yanagi, etc) and the $$$ is a turn off, and 3) wouldn't surprise me if there is a perception that wa handles won't pass muster with a health inspector unless you work in a sushi bar.
 
For me personally wa handles came into play exactly one year after I stopped using house knives and bought a Wusty Classic set. My first wa handle was the Takeda Large cleaver I believe, changed my world. Even though I have larger hands, I love the amount of control I can get from a wa and that my hond doesnt cramp as much as with a yo handle my .02
 
I'd say the vast majority of cooks in restaurants don't know squat about food nor do they even care! They most certainly do think they are god's gift to culinary pursuits of the human species.
So to think that they would at all be inclined to understand the finer aspects of good steel is foley.
To answer the OP I think that we are just a very small group of enthusiasts that care/notice about detail. As to when Wa got popular in the West (obviously very popular in the East...lol) is hard to say... because it aint.
I have worked in kitchens since '81 in L.A to Finland and all points inbetween and the ONLY time a coworker had a Wa sported blade was if there was sushi on the menu. I personally started to bring out Wa handled knives in the early '90s.
Every time I start a new gig, some fool always tries to show their Culinary School cred by scoffing at my "old, dirty" blades then they proudly present a gleaming, full set of Globals or Porsches... To which I always reply "how nice that must be for you."
 
Wa handles typically are also more easily replaced. I find this to be another advantage.
 
I kept my Yanagi's clean not that hard because only using for sashimi & sushi topping.My Gyuto,sugi,petty,cleavers I let patina go because cut anything & everthing with them.Usually a shade of grey would form after much use.No one ever gave me a hard time for my dark steel knives,they just wanted to borrow them all the time.
 
Back
Top