Finishing grit

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nickm523

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Very new to sharpening and basically playing with altering finish grit and technique ie micro bevel or not. Once I sharpen I cut some food for 5-10 mins feel the edge and then sharpen in another grit method etc. Playing on some old knives I have with unknown steel in them and I'm beginning to think very lousy geometry, before I need to sharpen some good knives that should be arriving next week. I was mainly wanting some feed back as to whether the phenomena that I'm noticing is my technique, my stones being below par (kasumi 240/1000 and 3000/8000) the knive being poor geometry or just that's what happens and my sharpening technique is progressing ok.

The few things I have noticed include
1000 grit seems to cut tomatoes better then the higher grits even if I can shave hair with the 8000 grit finish and not the 1000.
The higher grit seems to be amazing on protein provided you use a slicing action rather then a chopping type action
Hard vegetables such as sweet potatoes the knife goes in a bit then the vegetable cracks and the knife follows the crack. How much the knife does this depends on the geometry of the knife and not the sharpness.
Different metals take different efforts to create an edge and that edge will reach different degrees of sharpness.

If that is true do people alter their finishing level depending on what they are cutting and how they are going to cut it is slice vs chopi?

Also the 240 grit I have all but worn through in less then a month taking my old knives from chipped and broken to somewhat sharp. I was thinking of replacing the 240/1000 with gesshin 400 and 2000 these should be as capable of doing the hard work even at higher grits and not dish as quickly?

Thanks for the advice.
 
joining the question...

I've noticed the same thing, on high grit stones the knife stops slicing the tomato, and simply slides on the exterior of it.
when going only as high as 1000#, then knife comes close to shaving sharpness, but does a much better work on tomatoes.
as far as all other vegetables go, i can barely tel the difference, its just sharp.
 
Can't speak to the others but the Gesshin 2k is one of my favorites. I use it as a finisher for Forschners, etc.

And #2 daughter did 6 months at James Cook.........great memories for her.
 
Hi Nick. From my experience the burr created by the lower grit stones creates more bite to do things like tomatoes. For a while there, before I learned to sharpen blades the properish way I would sandpaper/dowel sharpen my serrated wusty bread knife and it was absolutely the best tomato slicer ever. Also, on the topic of your 240 grit: If you can afford it($50), I highly recommend the Beston 500x instead. It is rated as a 500, feels like an 800, but cuts like a 200. Just what I have learned in my short lived giveadamn about my knives career.
 
quantumcloud509 said:
Hi Nick. From my experience the burr created by the lower grit stones creates more bite to do things like tomatoes. For a while there, before I learned to sharpen blades the properish way I would sandpaper/dowel sharpen my serrated wusty bread knife and it was absolutely the best tomato slicer ever. Also, on the topic of your 240 grit: If you can afford it($50), I highly recommend the Beston 500x instead. It is rated as a 500, feels like an 800, but cuts like a 200. Just what I have learned in my short lived giveadamn about my knives career.
Click to expand...

How does that stone wear?
 
It cuts faster than it wears, which is why its such a neat stone.
 
nickm523 said:
Very new to sharpening and basically playing with altering finish grit and technique ie micro bevel or not. Once I sharpen I cut some food for 5-10 mins feel the edge and then sharpen in another grit method etc. Playing on some old knives I have with unknown steel in them and I'm beginning to think very lousy geometry, before I need to sharpen some good knives that should be arriving next week. I was mainly wanting some feed back as to whether the phenomena that I'm noticing is my technique, my stones being below par (kasumi 240/1000 and 3000/8000) the knive being poor geometry or just that's what happens and my sharpening technique is progressing ok.

The few things I have noticed include
1000 grit seems to cut tomatoes better then the higher grits even if I can shave hair with the 8000 grit finish and not the 1000.
The higher grit seems to be amazing on protein provided you use a slicing action rather then a chopping type action
Hard vegetables such as sweet potatoes the knife goes in a bit then the vegetable cracks and the knife follows the crack. How much the knife does this depends on the geometry of the knife and not the sharpness.
Different metals take different efforts to create an edge and that edge will reach different degrees of sharpness.

If that is true do people alter their finishing level depending on what they are cutting and how they are going to cut it is slice vs chopi?

Also the 240 grit I have all but worn through in less then a month taking my old knives from chipped and broken to somewhat sharp. I was thinking of replacing the 240/1000 with gesshin 400 and 2000 these should be as capable of doing the hard work even at higher grits and not dish as quickly?

Thanks for the advice.
Click to expand...

Could be a technique issue (just need more practice), but I don't have problems cutting tomatoes off an 8k stone. What knife are you using? Also does stropping after 8k help?
 
There are two possible problems here. 1. You're rounding your edges somehow on the finishing stone. 2. You're "over-finishing" your edge. A lot of people spend WAY too much time on high grit stones, IMO. I was there not that long ago. I'd get done with my finisher or strop (after a three or four stone progression) to get a mirror-like bevel and the knife would fall through the first couple of tomatoes and the third tomato would just laugh at me. Now, I spend no more than a couple of minutes on a 400-500 (barring any major damage) and then maybe a minute combined on any remaining stones (for double-bevel knives).
 
Thanks for the advice everyone.

I have a global knife then a few no name knives that I got as a free offer with a set of pots. The no name knives take so much effort to form a bur, I have to push quite firmly against the stone and it still takes at least double the time of the global to form a bur. Interestingly they blunt instantaneously as well. I was taking every knife through each grit and I think by the time I got to the polishing stones I was fatigued and my fingers were too water logged to feel what was happening with the bur. Today I just worked on the global going through 1000, 3000, 8000 and stropping on leather with diamond paste. I really tried to be a bit lighter with my pressure on the stone as well. End result tomato didn't stand a chance. Sharpest knife I've ever used then this turns up ...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/inghamfoto/9912210653/

Not even in the same ball park as it ... Wow!!!
 
to be honest ive never ever seen the sliding problem from finishing on high grit stones ive only seen it from bad technique or specific stones not working well in combination with each other. i understand the idea behind it but ive sharpened knives made from blue 2 and white steel to 5k - 8k and 10k and the bite the have is amazing through tomato skin ive even sharpened a butter knife up to 8k and it cut with great bite through the skin although the edge fell off pretty fast. all in all i think that its just the way you sharpen the knife and if you do a mediocre job on low grit stones and polish it your basicly polishing a turd where as if you do a mediocre job on low grit stones it will have bite because off the teeth left. anyway thats just my opinion im probly way off but im just speaking from my own experience
 
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