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ar11

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I've read through several posts on strops, but perhaps someone could quickly answer some questions I have:

Materials - Balsa, Leather, Felt - Is there one that works better for kitchen knives or certain steels (stainless vs carbon)? Is it the feedback the material gives? Or are certain materials easier to load?

Loaded vs Unloaded - Seems like most people load strops before use for fine cutting. Do people ever strop unloaded or is that ineffective? I thought I read Murray Carter just strops on newsprint.

Spray/Paste - Any preference toward diamond spray vs CrO? I gather the micron size makes most of the difference.
 
I've only stropped unloaded, so I can't speak for the benefits of such. I've had great results from simply stropping on newspaper or some scrap rawhide I have left over from a motorcycle seat project. I also pull through champagne corks to deburr, if that tells you anything, haha! :thumbsup:
 
Well I am in love with my Balsa wood hone with 1 micron blue diamond spray.

Although, I have no actual data since I have only used diamonds spray, I suspect for the same micron size, diamond would give a toothier edge than CrO or CBN because of the shape of the crystals. But at 1 micron, it is awesomely polished as well...
 
I've read through several posts on strops, but perhaps someone could quickly answer some questions I have:

Materials - Balsa, Leather, Felt - Is there one that works better for kitchen knives or certain steels (stainless vs carbon)? Is it the feedback the material gives? Or are certain materials easier to load?

Loaded vs Unloaded - Seems like most people load strops before use for fine cutting. Do people ever strop unloaded or is that ineffective? I thought I read Murray Carter just strops on newsprint.

Spray/Paste - Any preference toward diamond spray vs CrO? I gather the micron size makes most of the difference.

I've stropped newsprint (over a dry stone for a nice flat surface and yes Murray strops on newsprint), cardboard and leather.

Diamond will be faster than CrO and the edge feels has more "bite" to it for me. I have 3 bottles of the handamerican spray (1, 0.5, and 0.25 microns). I strop on balsa mostly now. I do have some leather lying around though. Its easy load the splitside of leather (CrO crayon, powder). I think the grain (smooth side) is for paste. I think that's how it works....

As for stropping material theirs so many out there its hard to keep track (heck, I just found out you can use denim for stropping!). For me its not about feedback its just a medium to hold the diamond spray.

Yes, you can strop unloaded (as long as your stropping medium has silica in it).
 
Well I am in love with my Balsa wood hone with 1 micron blue diamond spray.

Although, I have no actual data since I have only used diamonds spray, I suspect for the same micron size, diamond would give a toothier edge than CrO or CBN because of the shape of the crystals. But at 1 micron, it is awesomely polished as well...

I think the green CrO is generally 0.5 micron (avg particle size), but I agree so far from my experience diamond is toothier than CrO. I haven't tried CBN though.
 
I like to strop on loaded balsa and plain horse leather. I have several grits of stuff for the balsa. 1µ Boron Carbide paste, .5µ CrO paste (Green), 1µ, and .25µ diamond spray. The BC and CrO are less expensive and give me very good results so I have not gone too wild chasing the other stuff available out there.

Seems like some folks selling the stuff will blow all kinds of smoke and mirrors up your behind about their expensive formulations. I'm not convinced they meet the promises made. ;) It's best to try some stuff and see what works best for you. Good luck!
 
Smooth bovine leather loaded w/ 1u diamond spray (I use HA brand) will bring a properly sharpened edge into scary sharp category.

I'm a very active and passionate home cook and insist that my knives are scary sharp at all times. So I usually strop before each cutting task, sometime inbetween tasks. Im a freak but if my knives slide at all when stroking a ripe tomato skin, then it gets stropped. I like my edges sticky with three finger test and very quietly push cut paper.

When stroppping alone fails bring it back that sharp edge, I run the edge over a HA Brand 1200 ceramic rod, then strop on loaded leather. When that ceases to bring the edge back, I strop on take out my highest grit stone (takenono 8K), then back to loaded leather. Sometimes my fingers shake before touching the blade cause they know better. Yep
 
Smooth bovine leather loaded w/ 1u diamond spray (I use HA brand) will bring a properly sharpened edge into scary sharp category.

I'm a very active and passionate home cook and insist that my knives are scary sharp at all times. So I usually strop before each cutting task, sometime inbetween tasks. Im a freak but if my knives slide at all when stroking a ripe tomato skin, then it gets stropped. I like my edges sticky with three finger test and very quietly push cut paper.

When stroppping alone fails bring it back that sharp edge, I run the edge over a HA Brand 1200 ceramic rod, then strop on loaded leather. When that ceases to bring the edge back, I strop on take out my highest grit stone (takenono 8K), then back to loaded leather. Sometimes my fingers shake before touching the blade cause they know better. Yep

Just don't slide your fingers up and down too much on the edge.....
 
Well I am in love with my Balsa wood hone with 1 micron blue diamond spray.

Although, I have no actual data since I have only used diamonds spray, I suspect for the same micron size, diamond would give a toothier edge than CrO or CBN because of the shape of the crystals. But at 1 micron, it is awesomely polished as well...

I used to only strop on newspaper over a hard plate...and the edges were great. I had some felt strops I made from F1 hard felt, loaded with 6, 3, 1, and .5 diamond sprays...and I never felt they actually did anything. No matter how I positioned the knife (and I tried a TON), or what pressure I put on it...it felt like I was just sliding the knife over smooth cloth, and it didn't get any sharper. I always finished with the newsprint. Soooo last week I picked up a 3' piece of 5/16" balsa and made some strops out of that. I loaded them with the same sprays...and yeah, the difference was insane. First, the balsa tells you EXACTLY when you're hitting the edge, no matter what pressure you're using. That alone was worth it. But the cutting action seems much more efficient. Well worth the $5 I spent on the wood.

A friend of mine is sending me a horse butt leather strop soon...he suggested I use it unloaded as a finisher. I'm looking forward to trying it out.
 
Slide your fingers? I'm talking scary sharp, any movement up or down would unquestionaly produce blood, just the movement of actually touching the cutting edge is enough to leave a mark. If the edge is keen and I can move my fingers up or down the blade, then I grabe the ceramic rod cause the blade doesn't have enough bite. I like a toothy but refined edge.

Just don't slide your fingers up and down too much on the edge.....
 
Smooth bovine leather loaded w/ 1u diamond spray (I use HA brand) will bring a properly sharpened edge into scary sharp category.

I'm a very active and passionate home cook and insist that my knives are scary sharp at all times. So I usually strop before each cutting task, sometime inbetween tasks. Im a freak but if my knives slide at all when stroking a ripe tomato skin, then it gets stropped. I like my edges sticky with three finger test and very quietly push cut paper.

When stroppping alone fails bring it back that sharp edge, I run the edge over a HA Brand 1200 ceramic rod, then strop on loaded leather. When that ceases to bring the edge back, I strop on take out my highest grit stone (takenono 8K), then back to loaded leather. Sometimes my fingers shake before touching the blade cause they know better. Yep

Slide your fingers? I'm talking scary sharp, any movement up or down would unquestionaly produce blood, just the movement of actually touching the cutting edge is enough to leave a mark. If the edge is keen and I can move my fingers up or down the blade, then I grabe the ceramic rod cause the blade doesn't have enough bite. I like a toothy but refined edge.

What is your sharpening process prior to the strop? I've cut myself pretty bloodily being only slightly careless with my edges...but with light pressure I can certainly run my three fingers down them.

Scary sharp is good :).
 
Slide your fingers? I'm talking scary sharp, any movement up or down would unquestionaly produce blood, just the movement of actually touching the cutting edge is enough to leave a mark. If the edge is keen and I can move my fingers up or down the blade, then I grabe the ceramic rod cause the blade doesn't have enough bite. I like a toothy but refined edge.

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I've cut myself enough times now.
 
Cris, I saw that photo of you bloody mits last week, good one! Seriously, I hope it wasn't too deep, but somethinbg tell me this isn't the first time you've been bitten by a blade.

I have only been free-hand sharpeing for about six months now. I have a:

400 Naniwa Super Stone
1200 Bester
5k Rika
8K takenono
 
Cris, I saw that photo of you bloody mits last week, good one! Seriously, I hope it wasn't too deep, but somethinbg tell me this isn't the first time you've been bitten by a blade.

I have only been free-hand sharpeing for about six months now. I have a:

400 Naniwa Super Stone
1200 Bester
5k Rika
8K takenono

Nice! Prior to these kitchen knives...everything was sharpened on belts. I can get a crazy sharp edge on pretty much everything I make with belts, except kitchen knives. The edge is just too thin and the chance of burning it is too great...particularly near the tips. Soooo, I started freehand with diamond plates, and then Murray gave me his King 1000 and 6000 a couple weeks ago. I then finish off with the balsa strops.

Lol, it wasn't too deep, but man did it bleed! And you're right...definitely not the first time :D!
 
Thanks for all the feedback, where are you guys buying diamond spray and CrO?
 
Yes, you can strop unloaded (as long as your stropping medium has silica in it).

:scratchhead:

It sounds like you're equating stropping = abrading with a strop. You can strop unloaded leather, wood, denim, etc, but it serves a different purpose.

When I started out sharpening, I found stropping on 1u CBN gave me a sharper edge than from stones alone. It was like using a very forgiving 8k stone, cleaning up my imperfect technique and cutting an even but slightly rounded edge. That's the trade-off, and I've found that as I get better at sharpening, the loaded strop reaches a point of diminishing returns.

I just started stropping unloaded on horsebutt, which helps with burr removal between my low and high stones. I've heard if you strop only one side with pressure, it can reveal a wire edge, which makes sense but I haven't tried it. I've also heard it can improve an edge after your highest stone, but that seems a bit voodoo-ish to me, unless you still have residual burr maybe?

I'm curious how others use an unloaded strop, since I don't have much experience with it yet myself.
 
:scratchhead:

It sounds like you're equating stropping = abrading with a strop. You can strop unloaded leather, wood, denim, etc, but it serves a different purpose.

When I started out sharpening, I found stropping on 1u CBN gave me a sharper edge than from stones alone. It was like using a very forgiving 8k stone, cleaning up my imperfect technique and cutting an even but slightly rounded edge. That's the trade-off, and I've found that as I get better at sharpening, the loaded strop reaches a point of diminishing returns.

I just started stropping unloaded on horsebutt, which helps with burr removal between my low and high stones. I've heard if you strop only one side with pressure, it can reveal a wire edge, which makes sense but I haven't tried it. I've also heard it can improve an edge after your highest stone, but that seems a bit voodoo-ish to me, unless you still have residual burr maybe?

I'm curious how others use an unloaded strop, since I don't have much experience with it yet myself.

I'm confused on why you're confused.... :dazed:
 
When I strop it is mainly on diamond loaded felt or Gesshin 5k. I buy diamond juice from here.
 
When I strop it is mainly on diamond loaded felt or Gesshin 5k. I buy diamond juice from here.

Neat site.

Spacecowboy: Yes, I meant you can strop on any material containing silica whether the material is a good choice for stropping is another matter entirely.
 
When I strop it is mainly on diamond loaded felt or Gesshin 5k. I buy diamond juice from here.

Serendipity! I've been looking for that site, hard to remember such a generic name... IIRC, the compound is oil based and slurry is some sort of alcohol? Which grit do you like?
 
Serendipity! I've been looking for that site, hard to remember such a generic name... IIRC, the compound is oil based and slurry is some sort of alcohol? Which grit do you like?

I buy the slurry in 1 micron and heavy concentration. Thinking next time of ordering both the 1 micron and the next smaller size down (~.25u) and mixing them. Prices seem much more reasonable then pre-packaged sprays. They are very helpful if you call with questions--I did the first time I ordered and was very satisfied with their help/answers/service. They also sell rouge and aluminum oxide though I haven't tried either.
The bottles don't have a spray attachment so I bought some good/inexpensive spray bottles from the bay that have worked very well.
 
Ok so I did some testing last night with a range of different strop. I had three knives that were sharp ( do push cut paper tricks, shave hair, somewhat sticky 3 finger test) but if I slide the over blade over shoulder of a ripe tomato with the lightest touch possible, they would slip off and not grab. I worked on knives made of stainless steel, blue #2 and white #2 knives.


Here is my finding:

1u Boron Carbide on Balsa:
Nice feeling, good feedback and easy to control stropping speed.
Refined the existing teeth but didn't entirely polish them so there was still a little stickiness to the blade, just a little more slippery than I like.
Left some paste residue on the blade
Made the primary bevel super shiny
After three passes on each side. I was not able to get the edge to bite the tomato, just slip sliding at most points on the blade. Made three attempts

Dry Takenono 8K polishing stone (JKS)
Stropped with light but moderate pressure across a completely dry stone. I've been having a hard time achieving scary sharpness on my MAC 7" Flexy Filet lately. Crazy thin maybe 0.5mm. When I ran it over the Takenoko three passes on each side and 3Finger tested I almost, pissed and cut myself at the same time.
Really nice feeling, not too gritty or scratchy
the primary was not polished as much as the Boron
Grabbed the tomato skin without hesitation after three passes per side.

Bovine located 1u Diamond spray
This has been my final step in sharpening for years now. Its one of the few things I can usually count on to improve my edge (refinement, ultra keenness, bite immediately)
Great feel once you used the leather a few times. Good feedback and easy to control stropping speed.
Light strokes, few passes give a toothy.
This has been my tried and true finisher that always delivers tomato biting bladed if applied to an edge off a high grit stone.
Beautiful, sparkly primary bevel

Hard felt loaded with 1u Diamond spray.
I don't like the feel. Its spongy and hard to hold an angle cause the pad changes depending on how much pressure you poly.
Found it hard to really get the tip right.
Was not able to produce a tomato biting edge and I think it actually rounded the primary B that I could not correct even with using the Tatenono.
I know guys are very fond of loaded felt. Perhaps just don't have the technique of it. Those that are fond of this method, please share with me your approach.

I'm convinced that you could strop white #2 with water and improve the edge. White get redic
 
I strop on newspaper our local rag has to be good for something,that & sailing knives thru it to check sharpness.Newspaper is also a good way to store oiled carbon blades.

I also strop on a large homemade 16" x4" cowhide glued to wood.I use Adam's #2 polish,years ago bought a 16oz bottle still have alot left.Clean the leather wt. Blue Goop.After years of use,strop still in great shape wt. only a few small nicks in the leather.

I like the Adams it cleans up & puts a nice polish on the edge.When I sharpen others knives easy finishing step.When you have a sharp edge off your stones,strop use is a lite touch,not good to push too hard into the leather as it can slightly round your crisp edge.Just like stone burr removal it's a very lite touch.
 
Hard felt loaded with 1u Diamond spray.
I don't like the feel. Its spongy and hard to hold an angle cause the pad changes depending on how much pressure you poly.
Found it hard to really get the tip right.
Was not able to produce a tomato biting edge and I think it actually rounded the primary B that I could not correct even with using the Tatenono.
I know guys are very fond of loaded felt. Perhaps just don't have the technique of it. Those that are fond of this method, please share with me your approach.

This has been my exact experience with felt. The tip is awkward (it seems to bite into the felt or get hooked up), the feedback is zero, and nothing ever got sharper. As you said maybe its my technique, but it just didn't work for me.

What's funny is I have a 1x30 felt belt loaded with chromium oxide that is awesome for removing the burr on more substantial edges than kitchen knives. I like it far more than the cork belts I've tried.
 
I was going to try Advanced ABrasives (http://store.advancedabrasives.com/) insanely good prices...

Wow...nice selection. I wonder what the differences between slurry and suspension are? Then MDP, RDP, and PDP lol. The PDP is PRICEY. RDP cheapest, with MDP being middle of the road.

I made my own sprays from a paste (the paste was less expensive by a large margin) by mixing it with turpentine. It works perfectly and I have tons left...but it would be nice not to have to do that lol.
 
Wow...nice selection. I wonder what the differences between slurry and suspension are?
From my understanding Slurry is a liquid while Suspension is like a gel.
 

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