First Quality Gyuto Purchase - <Opinions Needed>

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Obiwan

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Hello,
I’m looking to expand my horizons a little bit and have been researching the purchase of a new kitchen knife. I was directed to this site by a very trusted source and couldn’t be happier with the wealth of knowledge and information I’ve quickly seen here. I’ve completed the questionnaire below and was hoping you guys/gals wouldn’t mind tossing out a few suggestions that you think I should consider for a new knife. I worked on a line years ago beside a few very knowledgeable knife enthusiasts but, regrettably, never retained any of the names of the knives they would lend me.

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
* Gyuto. I haven't finalized between 210mm and 240mm yet though.

Are you right or left handed?
* Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
* Wa-Japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
* I’m trying to decide between a 210mm and a 240mm.

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
* No. I’m not opposed to it, but I don’t feel it’s a deal breaker one way or another.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
* I'd say around $175. If raising it a tad pays, I'd be ok with that.

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
* Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
* I would say I would likely use this knife for most any kitchen task. The only exceptions I’d say are likely breaking down poultry bones and shellfish. I tend to use other designated options for that.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
* My current knives are Shun Classics (with SS handles). They have been very serviceable but I’ve always been interested in seeing what a step up in quality performs like.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
*Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
*Rock and Slice mainly.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
* My current knives do the job well (likely because I don’t know any better). I’m looking to see what a step or two up in quality is like.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
* I would absolutely love better aesthetics such as a damascus/patterned steel, but I’m not sure the budget I’ve set for this purchase gets me there. That said, if raising my budget marginally puts me into a different category that is worth “stretching into” I’d consider going a little higher.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
* I'm not sure I have a huge preference here. I want quality construction and not super crazy light for weight. Light is fine. Just not "feather" light. So I guess I’m open to anything expect for extremes on either end of the spectrum.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
*I’d like it to be decent out of the box. I don’t mind sharpening, but I’d like it to be relatively easy to sharpen.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
*I love to hone razors so I don't mind honing when needed. Edge retention is nice, but not critical.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?*
*Yes, usually wood and sometimes synthetic

Do you sharpen your own knives?
*Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
* I’ve never been against adding another toy to the toolbox. Not sure if there's anything else I'd need though?
 
At this price point finding a decent Wa-gyuto won't be easy. Have a look at JCK Kagayaki house series, though. No personal experience with their Wa-blades, but Mr Koki Iwahara from JCK is a very serious guy, and knows his stuff.
 
At this price point finding a decent Wa-gyuto won't be easy. Have a look at JCK Kagayaki house series, though. No personal experience with their Wa-blades, but Mr Koki Iwahara from JCK is a very serious guy, and knows his stuff.

As Benuser stated, their Kagayaki VG10 series has a wa handle option now. Is an option that would fit your budget.

May I ask how do you sharpen your knives?
 
Personally, I'd pay the extra 35 dollars and buy the JCK FuRinKaZan Swedish Stainless 240mm gyuto. Those Sakai-made lasers are amazing!

At that price point, ignore the aesthetics and get yourself a pure performer.
 
Thanks. I didn't realize that budget was going to be ultra restrictive. Let's say it was self-imposed. What is a more realistic price point got a decent option selection?

As for sharpening, glad to answer but I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking what type of stones/progression I use?
 
Personally, I'd pay the extra 35 dollars and buy the JCK FuRinKaZan Swedish Stainless 240mm gyuto. Those Sakai-made lasers are amazing!

At that price point, ignore the aesthetics and get yourself a pure performer.

I haven't used the JCK swedish stainless yet, but I can recommend the Sakai Yusuke's (240 will be slightly above budget, but the 210 is also an option). Oh, also there's the Sakai Takayuki's which are a cheaper option (closer to your budget $180 for a 240mm). Also, consider the Gesshin Gingas. They're a little pricier but come with a saya I believe. You can ask Jon @ JKI about them.
 
Thanks. I didn't realize that budget was going to be ultra restrictive. Let's say it was self-imposed. What is a more realistic price point got a decent option selection?

As for sharpening, glad to answer but I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking what type of stones/progression I use?

I was wondering if you were using stones or something method (Chef choice, and those Rube Goldberg type sharpening systems (wicked edge and whatever the other thing was....))
 
I was wondering if you were using stones or something method (Chef choice, and those Rube Goldberg type sharpening systems (wicked edge and whatever the other thing was....))

Nope. I'm an obsessed rockhound with way more stones than I need and zero self control. Lol
 

I have sister versions of two knives mentioned here -- the yo-handled version of the Sakai Takayuki Hammered Damascus (rebranded as Togiharu for Korin), and the AEB-L version of the Yusuke, the wa-handled Grand Chef (both 240mm). I can definitely vouch for both, though it's clear that they are definitely cut from completely different sets of blueprints. The Sakai Hammered is great if you like some weight to your knife and don't mind san-mai VG-10. It gets a lot of oohs and aahs from house-guests. Having gravitated towards monosteel lasers, the Grand Chef is prefect for me, but it needs to be sharpened as soon as you get it.
 
Are you saying that the Grand Cheff Wa is similar to the Yusuke? I have owned both and they are about as different in every way as wa-gyutos can get: profile, thickness, weight, handle... complete opposites. The GCW is a much heavier knife.
 
You're saying a wa handle is completely opposite from a wa handle? That doesn't make any sense.

Also, you're calling one of the lightest gyutos out there "much heavier" -- I believe you need to check your facts. Seems you're taking about the western handled version, which IS heavier. Either that, or you're contrasting the GC with the special extra thin edition of Yusuke.
 
OK, I'm going to go a bit the other way on weight and suggest a great cutter with really good fit and finish and say Kochi V2 kurouchi. I happen to find it aesthetically pleasing, extremely thin behind the edge and a great overall cutter. A bit over budget but I think well worth the added cost.
Cheers
Edit to add that I really liked the steel and thought it took an insane edge.
 
You're saying a wa handle is completely opposite from a wa handle? That doesn't make any sense.

Also, you're calling one of the lightest gyutos out there "much heavier" -- I believe you need to check your facts. Seems you're taking about the western handled version, which IS heavier. Either that, or you're contrasting the GC with the special extra thin edition of Yusuke.

I'm going to give you a pass because I am trying to turn over a new leaf with my online behaviour generally. :)

In answer to your question, that's a definitive 'yes': the handle on the GCW is bigger and the FF is noticeably inferior; the GCW feels and handles like a much bigger, heftier knife and its profile/blade shape and geometry are identical to my Masamoto HC 240mm (which is def not a laser).

OTOH, the Yusuke is very similar to the Tadatsuna and Ashi 'laser' wa-gyutos (I also have a stainless Ashi).

To sum up, after my Yusuke, which feels like handling a light saber, the GCW felt like a baseball bat.

Sorry if I caused you embarrassment by contradicting you like that but I thought it was important to correct such a gross mistake of fact.

Do yourself a favor and get an Ashi, Yusuke or Gesshin - it will BLOW YOUR MIND - if you think the GCW is a laser, wait till you see them apples!

PS: I just remembered how I came to buying and trying the GCW - I took a chance after naively trusting OG members at Foodie Forums who were talking out their butts (as usual) and found out I had been misled about its being a laser (it isn't).

PPS: How about that? Found my old pic on Google Images (note that you can see the differences in profile which are actually much more pronounced in real life):

HiromotoShiroko007.jpg


O ya, one handle is balck and teh other is wite! hehe
 
Back to the OP question. I have the Sakai Yusuke in stainless but it is a bit extreme, meaning it's a pure "laser" and have some flex due to its thiness.That's something that has to be accounted for when sharpening and I'm not sure it's the right choice for someone that has to learn sharpening.Maybe something stiffer would be better?In that price range you have the CarboNext but again it seems edge is not fantastic out of the box and requires a bit of work to enjoy its qualities. You've been recommended a Kagayaki but can't comment there ad I've never used one.Aparently VG10 is hit and miss depending on the skills of the maker.My Hattori HD is awesome but some 50$ outside of your budget. Hiromoto AS is close but again requires some sharpening skills to be appreciated fully.Maybe a MAC or a Tojiro DP?Or a Grand Chef in AEB-L?
 
And yes, if you can stretch to 250$ I would try a Gesshin Ginga, never used one but always seemed to be an excellent price/performance option and it's sold by someone you can trust. If I were in the States that would prob be my choice.
 
Thanks chilipepper. I not entirely new to sharpening. That said, I agree with your assumption for anything on the extreme end. Not looking for anything ultra on either end of the spectrum.

As for $250, I'm fine raiding my budget if it puts me into a worthy category.

Thanks again to everyone weighing in so far. This is helpful.
 
I'm not getting involved with the fisticuffs, but Seb knows a thing or two.

Anywho, since you have the Shun Classics, and have stones, why not try a nice carbon knife, or something with a carbon edge and stainless clad? Right now, if someone said, "You have $200(ish) to buy any gyuto" - This would be it, as a home user, or on a cramped line:

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-kurouchi-nashiji-210mm-wa-gyuto/

After this knife, I'd consider trying a Gesshin Uraku (I trust Jon), or a Misono Dragon. Not because it's the best knife in the world, but because it takes a fantastic edge, and feels wonderful in use. The steel has a reputation for being highly reactive, but we long ago came to the agreement that perhaps it's a problem in certain batches moreso than in others.
 
Same one....looking for something else to spend my money on and another excuse to keep the stones wet. Lol.
 
I'm going to give you a pass because I am trying to turn over a new leaf with my online behaviour generally. :)

In answer to your question, that's a definitive 'yes': the handle on the GCW is bigger and the FF is noticeably inferior; the GCW feels and handles like a much bigger, heftier knife and its profile/blade shape and geometry are identical to my Masamoto HC 240mm (which is def not a laser).

OTOH, the Yusuke is very similar to the Tadatsuna and Ashi 'laser' wa-gyutos (I also have a stainless Ashi).

To sum up, after my Yusuke, which feels like handling a light saber, the GCW felt like a baseball bat.

Sorry if I caused you embarrassment by contradicting you like that but I thought it was important to correct such a gross mistake of fact.

Do yourself a favor and get an Ashi, Yusuke or Gesshin - it will BLOW YOUR MIND - if you think the GCW is a laser, wait till you see them apples!

PS: I just remembered how I came to buying and trying the GCW - I took a chance after naively trusting OG members at Foodie Forums who were talking out their butts (as usual) and found out I had been misled about its being a laser (it isn't).

PPS: How about that? Found my old pic on Google Images (note that you can see the differences in profile which are actually much more pronounced in real life):

HiromotoShiroko007.jpg


O ya, one handle is balck and teh other is wite! hehe

Hokay, my main issue was the fact that you were saying that so much was "totally opposite," so if you just mean that a black ferrule is opposite from white, that's cool. I'm curious about the weight, though! I don't have a scale myself, but the weight of the GC is noted as 153 grams here: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?post/1788411/
The censored & unscrupulous popular J-Knife seller lists the Yusuke as 5.4 OZ, which also translates to 153 grams. Can we have some empirical data?
 
One is a baseball bat and the other is a knife, how's that? :D
 
With all due respect to those two vendors, I wouldn't rely on those numbers at all.
 
With all due respect to those two vendors, I wouldn't rely on those numbers at all.

Agreed, I would like to see some numbers from people who own them. I wish I had a scale!
 
Obiwan - welcome. Aside from the bickering, you will find this a very informative and welcoming place for learning about kitchen knives. A lot of jnat lovers here too, and we collectively are big into sharpening our own gear, so you'll fit right in. I got into straight razors from this forum, and I am sure you will be just as well rewarded going in the reverse direction. Also, always good to know another accomplished razor honer in our midst! I think you should most definitely scour the forum and vendor pages and learn as much as you can about the numerous options/knife styles/lexicon out there, and keep an eye on the BST for deals - there are frequent and substantial deals to be had!
 
Besides, if you check out the pic at Aoki Hamono you get a good indication of that massive profile I've been talking about. Thing is like a freakin machete.
 
Obiwan - welcome. Aside from the bickering, you will find this a very informative and welcoming place for learning about kitchen knives. A lot of jnat lovers here too, and we collectively are big into sharpening our own gear, so you'll fit right in. I got into straight razors from this forum, and I am sure you will be just as well rewarded going in the reverse direction. Also, always good to know another accomplished razor honer in our midst! I think you should most definitely scour the forum and vendor pages and learn as much as you can about the numerous options/knife styles/lexicon out there, and keep an eye on the BST for deals - there are frequent and substantial deals to be had!

Thanks. As for the creative bickering, makes me feel like Sunday dinner at home. I enjoy it. It's actually insightful. :)
 
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