What Happens When You Abolish Tipping

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making gratuity mandatory(server charge)? sounds good to me. the disparity between what FOH takes home and BOH takes home needs to change, thats for sure.
 
As someone who has worked as a server and in a kitchen, :plus1:
 
I think the idea of splitting the "service charge" amongst all the employees is a good idea. However, as someone who was forced to go to The Linkery three times in three different years, I have to say, the service was spotty and while there were a few tasty dishes, they weren't surprising (delicious sausages and cheese aren't hard to come by) or imaginative in flavor, composition or appearance. I always got the feeling it was the "coolness" (large open windows on the corner of a busy street in the fashionable part of town) that sold the place. I won't miss it. The $2 taco shop down the street is much better in every respect other than the wine list.
 
When I opened our place I flat out made it policy that a small percentage of FOH gratuity went to the BOH. It only amounts to $20-$30 extra on my cooks paychecks, but Heck that's gas money! plus I also thinks this helps tear down the "wall" between the front and back, which I absolutely despise.
I'm on the fence when it comes to mandatory grat though. Too many issues with that. Will the severs start becoming less outgoing? And of course guests will certainly argue it. pros and cons I guess
 
This is a subject that is interesting and worth exploring, but is often overly reduced when it comes to the social and inequality outcomes of tipping, and also when trying to pinpoint which incentives are actually at play. It's way too simplistic to compare incentives by saying "look, they still exist!" rather than to understand why and how they work, and how the different models of employee pay change not only the customer/server dynamic, but also the employee/employer dynamic and the relation of the server in question to his ability to own his work product, in other words, server as deploying capital versus as working for a wage. Anyway, in a world of ossified ideology it is as disconcerting to see such an unnuanced view of an important topic as it is hopeful to see people thinking about it and discussing it.
 
What about adding a second gratuity line, for tipping BOH? Let the diner choose where the money goes.
 
I worked both front and back of house. My rule was give $5 per line cook, $10 per chef. It isn't much, but once I started doing it, the other servers followed suit pretty quickly. All in all, I'd be out about $30 per shift, in tips, but that pales in comparison to the $200 I'd take home. With 5 servers doing the same, it was a decent little take home for the cooks. Not great, but ok.

Needless to say, my heart was always with the BOH and I always felt like a trader when I worked up front.
 
i've been pushing the concept of tipping out back of the house here in LA among chefs for about 2 years... either that or having a way to tip them separately.
 
A couple of Oregonites just moved to Maine, and starting working at our new joint. They were utterly shocked that tipping out the BOH wasn't SOP. I'm not a big fan of forced gratuity. I am a big fan of sharing the fecking wealth. I've worked both sides, and know the weight they both carry. One isn't necessarily more than the other. Lots of factors to consider on both sides. But no matter how you break it down- there's a huuuuuge disparity of wealth. It's effed up.
 
It's important to realize, or remember, that pay is never related to amount of labor or hardness of work, it is related to marginal product. In a lot of cases the simple fact that front of the house is customer facing means that they add more value to the business even if they don't work that hard, and in back of the house hard work doesn't change the fact that many line positions are basically plug in. Not saying it is how we would like things to be if we were benevolent gods, just that it is important to understand things through the lens of how we understand compensation on a larger scale.
 
In a lot of cases the simple fact that front of the house is customer facing means that they add more value to the business even if they don't work that hard, and in back of the house hard work doesn't change the fact that many line positions are basically plug in.

at the same time viewership of pseudo chef/foodie shows is at an all time high. not trying to get in a pissing contest over whos job is more important in any particular restaurant, but people dine out primarily for the food,not the service. i think its pretty respected among the civilians that the BOH talent is a better gauge of the percieved quality of a restaurant rather than the service. then again, im sorta biased :biggrin:
 
Chez Pannise in Berkeley where I live has been doing this more or less forever however I don't know if any of it goes to the BOH, does anyone know...
 
at the same time viewership of pseudo chef/foodie shows is at an all time high. not trying to get in a pissing contest over whos job is more important in any particular restaurant, but people dine out primarily for the food,not the service. i think its pretty respected among the civilians that the BOH talent is a better gauge of the percieved quality of a restaurant rather than the service. then again, im sorta biased :biggrin:

Yeah, I'm not trying to argue, because I don't disagree with you in theory and because I spent a good part of my younger adult years on a line and none in the front of the house, so I obviously agree in some way there too. However, read Yelp! reviews and others and see if you think most people have any damn clue about what makes food good. I think that most watchers of Top Chef or whatever are watching for sporting and drama reasons, but what do I know, I can't stand them. What I am saying, I guess, is that people might think they care about the food more, but they often can't tell, whereas they can tell about good service, and money spent tends to be a better indicator of reality than words, especially when sticking to words reflecting something less than truth gives off a good bit of connoisseurship and social cache.
 
What about adding a second gratuity line, for tipping BOH? Let the diner choose where the money goes.

:plus1: Definitely. Food can be great, service can be questionable. No need to make both sides suffer.
 
FWIW, the history of gratuity is that it is paid in personal service encounters and not for products. I don't see how adding gratuity to a product, say food, is going to work. Social norms can certainly be created, but this seems like kind of a clumsy one.
 
FWIW, the history of gratuity is that it is paid in personal service encounters and not for products. I don't see how adding gratuity to a product, say food, is going to work. Social norms can certainly be created, but this seems like kind of a clumsy one.

That's a good point...and BoH isn't likely to know which item was sent to your table, nor even that this is your 25th visit to the restaurant. Seems like that would have to be addressed for there to be a service opportunity there.
 
People don't see going to a restaurant as buying a product; it's "entertainment." Tipping is usually based on satisfaction with the server, but sometimes the food (it's a product, but I don't think it's perceived the way you mean) affects the tip.

BOH should get a cut of the action.
 
I don't understand the whole tipping thing anyway. I have never worked in a restaurant, so I may not have a full perspective. I am not socially expected to tip my electrician, children's daycare provider, my doctor, person who helps me find something at the store ect. Why is it tied to the one service of taking my order, bringing it out and keeping my drink full?

That being said, I typically tip a standard 20% when eating out. Even if the service is not great, I figure that the restaurant it not paying the servers a living wage and there is a very good chance were not trying to provide inadequate service or being lazy , stuff just happens.

Having to rely on "gracious" tippers and getting stiffed by cheapskates must suck.
 
I don't understand the whole tipping thing anyway. I have never worked in a restaurant, so I may not have a full perspective. I am not socially expected to tip my electrician, children's daycare provider, my doctor, person who helps me find something at the store ect. Why is it tied to the one service of taking my order, bringing it out and keeping my drink full?

That being said, I typically tip a standard 20% when eating out. Even if the service is not great, I figure that the restaurant it not paying the servers a living wage and there is a very good chance were not trying to provide inadequate service or being lazy , stuff just happens.

Having to rely on "gracious" tippers and getting stiffed by cheapskates must suck.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V4sbYy0WdGQ
 
people dine out primarily for the food,not the service. i think its pretty respected among the civilians that the BOH talent is a better gauge of the percieved quality of a restaurant rather than the service.

I don't understand the whole tipping thing anyway. I have never worked in a restaurant, so I may not have a full perspective. I am not socially expected to tip my electrician, children's daycare provider, my doctor, person who helps me find something at the store ect. Why is it tied to the one service of taking my order, bringing it out and keeping my drink full?

Both good points. Agreed.

Myself, I don't live in the States and so don't have to worry about the 20% so much. I think if service is good then, fine, perhaps round up the bill when you pay. But 20%? That's a lot. And of course it all depends on where you are.

Of course there are many countries where you never tip in restos and where service can be perfectly fine. Must be a breath of fresh air if you're not used to that and, whoa, you suddenly find that you've just eaten and that you only need to pay what you're supposed to. To me the mandatory tipping culture that exists in North America is pretty odd indeed.
 
The 'mandatory' tipping in the US is because the servers are typically paid around/ less than minimum wage. In many other countries the servers are paid better (which is reflected in the cost of the entrée, etc.) and tipping is not normal.
 
the government also taxes tips in the US. which means very often servers dont actually recieve any income through their paychecks and live enirely on their tips/tip share.
 
The 'mandatory' tipping in the US is because the servers are typically paid around/ less than minimum wage. In many other countries the servers are paid better (which is reflected in the cost of the entrée, etc.) and tipping is not normal.

Yes, of course ;) I'm not so sure about servers being paid better in many other places, however. I think I they often still tend to get paid minimally, more along the lines of the crew in the kitchen.
 
The 'mandatory' tipping in the US is because the servers are typically paid around/ less than minimum wage. In many other countries the servers are paid better (which is reflected in the cost of the entrée, etc.) and tipping is not normal.
It is because of tips that they are only paid around/ less than minimum wage with tips making up the difference. Do away with tips and pay them a living wage would be the way to go.
 
It is because of tips that they are only paid around/ less than minimum wage with tips making up the difference. Do away with tips and pay them a living wage would be the way to go.

Explain why it is the way to go. Most servers, given the choice, would probably pick tips because the average pay is higher. People other than the servers don't really matter in the calculus.
 
Do away with tips and pay them a living wage would be the way to go.

from the stuff i've watched minimum wage in your country is $7-$12 dollars an hour, depending on the state. and if it were an ideal world, it would be $22 dollars an hour by now, according to someone i watched on video that computed everything including inflation and stuff.

i'd like to think, with the standard of living on your country among other things. it would be a very liveable wage indeed and eliminating tips altogether.
 
Explain why it is the way to go. Most servers, given the choice, would probably pick tips because the average pay is higher. People other than the servers don't really matter in the calculus.
They would chose tips over minimun wage but no one said pay them minimum wage. I said pay them a living wage. You can't live on minimum wage. I wouldn't want my pay dependent on someones generosity at a given moment.
 
Where I work BOH gets a little tip money but we all share it equally and generally only get about £10 a week. The dishwashers get the same. I get the feeling the minimum wage over here in the UK is higher than that in the US though. I understand that FOH are responsible for a lot of how happy a customer is, but at the same time to get the damn food out there takes a lot of sacrifices FOH doesn't haven't to make, FOH basically have a much cushier job to be honest. I'm glat to get any extra money, but it is still a little grating when someone works about 8 hours a week and gets like 3-4 times the tips I get for a 50 or 60 hour week. Basically I think it should be more equal
 
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