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  1. #11
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    i figure if jnat have better 'feel' then my technique would be more efficient hence fewer mess ups even if it cuts slower. in the long run my sessions would be quicker, besides it's only for finishing and touchups so shouldnt take long to begin with right?

    chuck, could you elaborate on 'too high'?

    im a little confused on what bieniek does. he stops at binsui but uses mud built up from higher grit naguras as a combo type deal?

    my goal is to have a very aggressive edge with retention being vastly more important than refinement. hence 2k target grit if that makes any sense? for reference, i stop at king 1000 on house knives. currently stopping @ synthetic 3k for my knives.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by panda View Post
    i figure if jnat have better 'feel' then my technique would be more efficient hence fewer mess ups even if it cuts slower. in the long run my sessions would be quicker, besides it's only for finishing and touchups so shouldnt take long to begin with right?

    chuck, could you elaborate on 'too high'?

    im a little confused on what bieniek does. he stops at binsui but uses mud built up from higher grit naguras as a combo type deal?

    my goal is to have a very aggressive edge with retention being vastly more important than refinement. hence 2k target grit if that makes any sense? for reference, i stop at king 1000 on house knives. currently stopping @ synthetic 3k for my knives.
    in this case Red Aoto would be the highest you would go.
    Ikarashi, Aizu, Binsui, all are in the 1k-2k range

  3. #13
    Senior Member Chuckles's Avatar
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    For some tasks the red aoto leaves the edge too refined. For slicing crusty proteins especially.
    For most things it is a great stone. Great for touch ups.

    PM me if you want to try it.

    As far as I can tell that is how Bieniek uses his Binsui.
    'The only real security that a man can have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability.' -Henry Ford

  4. #14
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    got to try a nat for the first time today, have on loan a san-aoto (the little skinny one from this shootout http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/sh...-Aoto-Shootout). got to say i came away impressed. it feels wonderful and the edge it leaves is unreal. got to see how long this edge will last though.

  5. #15
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    *update
    i ended up with a very nice aoto from maxim, i absolutely love the edge off of it as finishing stone and it cuts fast too. don't spend much time on it, feels like 4k grit, if i go longer it gets more refined to 5kish.

    now i'm curious about a coarser jnat, perhaps binsui?

    vinster, how long would you say it takes to cut a new edge with a binsui?

  6. #16
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    where did you get a Aoto I thought they were sold out?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by panda View Post
    vinster, how long would you say it takes to cut a new edge with a binsui?
    It's really hard to say how long it takes to get a fresh edge... it depends on how thick the knife is BTE and what kind of steel. I'm just a home cook, so my knives rarely need to go down to a binsui except when I first set them up. What nagura I use to make a slurry also impacts the speed. I usually use an asano tenjyou, but it cuts faster if I use my atoma 1200 plate. On a knife that's already thin behind the edge with white #2 (konosuke fujiyama), I can raise a burr in under a minute. On a global or a shun vg10, it takes a bit longer.

    I'd say that it's slower than the synthetic 1000s that I've tried, including the JNS 1000, JKI 1200, JKI 1000 diamond plate, and bester 1200.

  8. #18
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    I would sharpen my knives after service.I always found it a nice focus relaxation after busting A@* all night long.I am not preachingbut always enjoyed working with sharp edges.Never minded sharpening.

  9. #19
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    the purpose of nagura is to build a slurry right? i have a dmt slurry stone, would that work?

    keith - last thing i want to do @ end of shift is to pull out stones and do a sharpening session, i'm there for so long i just want to GTFO and have a beer or four or ten.
    lately, i've just kept using dulled edge until i feel like doing another full session (not just touch ups, i find those only mitigate the issue for a few days)

  10. #20
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    has anybody used both a binsui and an ikarashi? what are some pros and cons of each?

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