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Thread: Takeda cleaver comparison - New vs Old (pic heavy)

  1. #21
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    His old blades it sounds like were the best flatter profile,drop nose.Convex edge that blends into the side of the blade.I've had old Japan carbon gyuto's like that.They just glide thru foods.I swear by the old style blades Those forgers deff. knew what they were doing.

  2. #22
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Martell View Post
    Takedas knives recently have been getting really thick down at the edge, or directly behind it, and it's not something easily fixed with stones. They've taken some of the best performing knives and turned them into Henckels, not cool.

    This is an exaggerated drawing to show the difference between what he used to make and what he's putting out these days.....
    I've noticed the same thing, from the pics people have been posting of new Takedas. The first Takeda I owned, which was the "special edition" that one store sold a few years ago, was pretty thick, but even it wasn't as bad as what I've seen recently, in pictures. The other Takedas I owned were older, and had thickened up with use, but it was obvious that they had once been very thin, and it was fairly easy to fix the geometry. I wonder if different craftsmen are finishing them, or if it's just a symptom of making too many knives?

  3. #23
    Senior Member Justin0505's Avatar
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    ths bevel on my nakiri and then ts now the best cuter that i own. Food release is also excellent with the new grind, and im guessing is a big part od tye reason for changing.
    "I gotta tell ya, this is pretty terrific. Ha hahaha, YEAH!" - Moe (w/ 2 knives). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVt4U...layer_embedded

  4. #24
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    going by the drawing, i think i would enjoy the new grind, i don't like the old style takeda but this thicker version seems interesting aside from the horrible profile and being actually too tall.

  5. #25
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panda View Post
    going by the drawing, i think i would enjoy the new grind, i don't like the old style takeda but this thicker version seems interesting aside from the horrible profile and being actually too tall.
    it would likely be a wedging machine.

  6. #26
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    not once you put in a few hours of work to adjust the geometry

  7. #27
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    might take more than a few hours, though.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Chuckles's Avatar
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    This is all very interesting. Dave's first drawing is a very good exaggerated depiction of my Takeda. It is still very thin behind the ege when compared to every knife I see that is owned by a non KKFer. And the release is exceptional.

    Is that what is referred to as an "S" grind sometimes?
    'I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying.' Woody Allen

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckles View Post
    Is that what is referred to as an "S" grind sometimes?
    Yes, I suppose it would, but really its just a concave grind/geometry. They have been around for a long time but only recently have people started referring to them as an S grind. I'm not sure where the S thing started, but it's just an name for something that already exists. Since you can't concave/hollow grind a kitchen knife for the entirety of it's blade face, like you could a razor, the middle portion of the blade is hollowed out, either by grinding, forging or other methods. The problem with grinding the entire face hollow, other than needing a very large and specific radius, is being able to maintain the geometry. You wouldn't be able to continue the hollow with a flat stone. So instead a bevel from the hollow to edge is ground. The width and prominence varies. Some are very obvious (Takeda, Heiji, etc) some less so (Marko, Shigefusa, etc). Either way, you can sharpen the knife and maintain it's geometry. The short convex bevel is just part of a concave grind, not a unique feature of some knives requiring a different name.

    The only other concave ground knives I can think of that do not have a convex bevel behind the edge are some custom knives made by guys who have no business making kitchen knives; or restaurant house knives, which are basically flat ground and then sharpened/thinned on a machine that grinds both bevels at the same time before they put the final edge bevel on. Neither of these styles are at all effective or discussed here so I don't see the need to distinguish between them and the concave geometries described above. Just as there are effective and ineffective convex geometries there are effective and ineffective concave geometries.

    Thus ends my rant against the term "S grind".
    "God sends meat and the devil sends cooks." - Thomas Deloney

  10. #30
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    JMO double bevel from a Katana sword,Cleavers heavy bone to lite veg.,Gyuto's,Machete's,convex rules.

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