Takeda questions

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vlad8

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Hi Guys,

I just joined the takeda club :) and i have a few questions.
What is the conclusion regarding the lacquer? What is the angle this knives come sharpened at? What angle do you sharpen them at usually?
 
Most people remove lacquer from any knife regardless. Takeda's lacquer is very tough. Some people leave it. Personally I've always removed mine but it isn't a huge issue. Can't say what angle they come sharpened at but its AS and can take a very acute angle. Play around and see what suits you best. I've gone as low as 5 degrees per side on gyutos. Higher on debas of course. Have fun!
 
Also i think it needs some thinning. I cut carrot with it and i can feel a little wedging. What is your experience with it?
 
Also i think it needs some thinning. I cut carrot with it and i can feel a little wedging. What is your experience with it?

Takedas are ultra-thin near the edge, but all the ones I've seen have a fairly distinct "shoulder" a few mm above the edge. I've spent a lot of time trying to thin this out on a 240 gyuto, and haven't succeeded yet.

The knife is still a great cutter, it's just that the very thin edge makes the transition more noticeable.
 
Takedas are ultra-thin near the edge, but all the ones I've seen have a fairly distinct "shoulder" a few mm above the edge. I've spent a lot of time trying to thin this out on a 240 gyuto, and haven't succeeded yet.

The knife is still a great cutter, it's just that the very thin edge makes the transition more noticeable.

Yes I compared it with my Geshin ginga. The problem the this shinogi line or whatever it is called. it looks to me it has to be a few mm higher.
 
Very timely thread. I have a Classic Bunka maybe four YO. Agreed to whats been said but I'm hoping some of the pro sharpeners will chime in with a solution to properly thin this knife prior to sharpening. I only use mine for boneless meat cutting cause it sucks for any firm to hard vegetables. Very Ax like. I'm not saying that its a bad knife, I Takeda San is legendary for a reason, but just that I don't know properly sharpen it and frankly, am intimidated to do so.

The way I understand it, below the Shinogi line is actually three bevels. First from shinogi line to lamination line, second, the lamination line to primary bevel, third primary bevel. They have to be thinned, then blended. Scared to practice on my perfect Takeda. Actually considering posting it in BST. Hope we get some help.
 
I've got the wedging problem on a 170mm Bunka Bocho, too. Tried some thinning behind the edge, but result has not been very satisfying, yet.
Further tips would be highly appreciated.
 
The way I understand it, below the Shinogi line is actually three bevels. First from shinogi line to lamination line, second, the lamination line to primary bevel, third primary bevel. They have to be thinned, then blended. Scared to practice on my perfect Takeda. Actually considering posting it in BST. Hope we get some help.

Hi..


Flattening of multi bevels.. light removal of steel.

thus don't be too overly aggresive and be abrading steel withoout thought as what we are doing and its effect.. You cant put back removed steel. We are removing steel bit by bit where we desire till we are satisfied.


For my thinning work, I use mainly sandpaper as it gives me better control ( less pressure).. with no less than 400 grit even though personally I prefer the 600 as it does leave a finer striations but cuts a little slower. I wld suggest 600 grit till you have more experience adn besides it gets finer with use.

Have no fear... remove bit by bit till you are satisfied.. Each time say a 5-10 minutes a each session, within a few days.. you will get there

a) if it is convex, out of respect of the shape of the curve, I wld use a soft backing like a thin piece of silicone mat or a few pieces of rolled paper so that it can conform to the shape of the curve. IF not a folded piece of sandpaper wld have some give.

b) Sometimes.. its just the index finger or thumb on sandpaper.. but becareful in case you cut yr finger. Put blade very flat on a stable top. i perfer glass and ensure that edge is flushed with the flat top.

c) I stumbled across a Youtube video.. blade polishing .. cant remember now.. the chap used a 1 inch x 8 inch bar and he rolled the cut of sand paper around it so that he can apply more force.
For our purpose .. if you roll a few times the strip of sandpaper to the width required..that will be convex. Thus 2 thumbs can be on the piece if aggresive steel removal is required; which is not in thuis case, I suppose to prevent scratching on the blade by the part that has no sandpaper rolled over, we cld stick a soft silicone on it.


d) alternatively, you cld try stropping on a large sand paper of 600 grit with a few sheets of paper underneath to respect the convex grind. THis is mainly for convexing the edge.. My preferred choice is MicroMesh as it comes with a cloth backing,


There is nothing to fear as long as you remove bit by bit adn check on the progress and in te process, get a a new dimensional feel for the blade..

FInally, from personal observation, after the thinning, eventhough I try not to touch the very edge, the edge wld need a quick touch up.

So have fun
rgds
d
 
Very timely thread. I have a Classic Bunka maybe four YO. Agreed to whats been said but I'm hoping some of the pro sharpeners will chime in with a solution to properly thin this knife prior to sharpening. I only use mine for boneless meat cutting cause it sucks for any firm to hard vegetables. Very Ax like. I'm not saying that its a bad knife, I Takeda San is legendary for a reason, but just that I don't know properly sharpen it and frankly, am intimidated to do so.

The way I understand it, below the Shinogi line is actually three bevels. First from shinogi line to lamination line, second, the lamination line to primary bevel, third primary bevel. They have to be thinned, then blended. Scared to practice on my perfect Takeda. Actually considering posting it in BST. Hope we get some help.


Thin it out like any other knife that needs thinning. Follow the geometry of the knife, ignoring the bevel shoulders, and you should be fine. You might reduce the kurouchi finish some, but it's not a big deal. The knife needs to cut.
 
I am no expert on Takeda's,but I bought an older one from a forum member 270mm gyuto.It has the same bevel as the older cleaver in the thread that Dave gave the link to.The bevel blends into the sides of the blade.Easy to sharpen & a good all around cutter.Put a misty finish on my backbevel & polish on the the final bevel.
 
I've only cut a tomato with my nakiri so far so I can't say anything about wedging or performance, but the grind seems pretty intentionally flat-concave on one side, and almost a little convex on the other. When I first saw it, I thought it was warped, but the more I look at it, the more intentional it seems.

1x34pqd.jpg
 
when the lacquer came off of mine i think the knife became less sharp. lmfao
 
looks like it is going to be lots of work to thin it. What stone should i use? Any guide i can use when thinning?
 
I would be careful trying to do major thinning on a Takeda.It is very thin at the blade road,to try to thin the small area on the blade were it is a little thicker,you have to be careful not to mess up what is above & below it.Don't just go wailing away on a coarse stone,you can screw up the blade.

My suggestion is put a sharp edge on it,use a forward push cut & forget about thinning it.I only did a good sharpening on the used Takeda I bought,it glides thru carrots,tomato's,potato's wt. no stiction.

I think a sharp edge & some knife skills go a long way.Trying to over analize how a blade falls thru a carrot :dazed:I used thin carbons for years at work,all I know is they cut well.I never worried about flex didn't even know what it was till started reading forums.Some prep. need a more beefy blade,simple use the appropriate knife for the job.
 
one other option is give to somebody that knows what is doing like Dave if somebody is willing to do it.
 
one other option is give to somebody that knows what is doing like Dave if somebody is willing to do it.

that's a great idea... but personally, i wld attempt to do it and not do it and it is most comforting that there is a recourse to correct it and bring it to its intended purpose shld it be needed.


Just a thought.....

It is a journey... beyond sharpening is to be able to do slight modification, correction to get the desired outcome. Furthermore, it will deepen the knowledge and understanding of what makes a great knife.

Having said that, there were times that I had to send it to the professionals to get it done. My wood working stints, car repairs had previously called for the professionals to rescue me to complete the job ( a laughing point for my friends)... but I am still at it and will eventually get there. Besides it did give me a period of anticipation and joy.. whilst I was at it.:bliss:

Being a white collar guy, its one of the few things that I do that involves using my hands which hopefully engages my sense of touch to a higher level, overcoming small problems and hopefully delay teh onset on Alzeimer...
Have fun
 
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