Need a good real first kitchen knife

I'm looking for is a general purpose kitchen knife. I'm not a pro just an enthusiast, so just home use. I really like the Japanese knives, the look, the swordmaking heritage all of that. Im probably looking at a Gyoto or Santoku in the 7 to 8 inch range. I really like the look of damascus so if I could do that in my price range that would be fantastic. I would really like to keep it under 150 and would love to get a stone in there for that too but I know that may not be realistic. As with this knife I will also be trying to learn sharpening on a stone for the first time as wel.

Some of the ones I'm looking at, Ive looked at a lot on japanese chef knife, looks reasonable priced and from what I've read people like them.

The Gekkos on there are the ones I usually look at, hammer forged damascus and the price is right

http://japanesechefsknife.com/SPECIALS.html#Specials top two

There are some Kanetsunes and Tojiros, mainly the DPs, that I've looked at that are in my price range, but its been a while since looking at them.

Ive also seem some ebay sellers selling cheap Tanaka knives. Like jpmetalsmith and 330mate....the numbers look good....handmade, layered forged stainless, HRC of 62-63. I've read a bit about them and apparently the fit and finish isnt always the greatest but the blades themselves are pretty good, but you get what you pay for.

The way I see it is it could be a great practice knife. Im just starting out sharpening so I would feel better about messing up a 60 dollar knife as opposed to a 150 dollar one..though I guess you really can't do much that cant be reversed though...


So any other reccos for something out there or any comments on the ones I've looked at?

Thanks

If your looking for cheap metalmaster has this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Da...869?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd7e676b5

The fit and finish might not be great but people here seem to really like the Tanakas

I've handled a few Gekkos and given away a bunch as gifts. Sharpened one last week for a friend (Santoku that has served her very well in a home environment for about 5 or 6 years now). They look good, sharpen easy, retain an edge reasonably well and if you mess it up it won't cost you an arm and a leg. Koki is great to deal with and the 7$ shipping is a steal. Highly recommended.

CoqaVin said:

If your looking for cheap metalmaster has this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Da...869?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd7e676b5

The fit and finish might not be great but people here seem to really like the Tanakas

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this is what I was looking at, not damascus but layered and cheap:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390694102256?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

tripleq said:

I've handled a few Gekkos and given away a bunch as gifts. Sharpened one last week for a friend (Santoku that has served her very well in a home environment for about 5 or 6 years now). They look good, sharpen easy, retain an edge reasonably well and if you mess it up it won't cost you an arm and a leg. Koki is great to deal with and the 7$ shipping is a steal. Highly recommended.

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Yeah I think if I go that route the Gekko would be the one I just need to convince myself that I can spend 108 to 150 on a knife...I know thats cheap in comparison to a lot of others but its still some money for me..plus adding in a stone and were up to 200 or so....I'm ok with that because I know it will last me its just getting the money up to do it....

Make it easier to yourself just as to us to help you, fill in the questionnaire.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...hich-Knife-Should-I-Buy-quot-Questionnaire-v2

Benuser said:

Make it easier to yourself just as to us to help you, fill in the questionnaire.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...hich-Knife-Should-I-Buy-quot-Questionnaire-v2

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Sorry about pulling the stupid new guy thing....I usually check for stuff like that

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Chef Knife

Are you right or left handed?
Right Handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

Either is ok

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
7 - 8 inches 190-240mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No, but may prefer one due to easier care, though I wouldnt be opposed to carbon either

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$150


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home use

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Slicing, chopping and mincing vegetable. Slicing and trimming meat and poultry.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
None really just some dull chipped up tin like chinese jobs...

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
I use the hammer grip knowing that I really shouldn't will be using the pinch grip more

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Push cut, a little rocking, slicing an chopping

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Good steel, very sharp and good edge retention

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
I like layered and/or damascus knives other than that Im fairly opened....

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Probably lighter knife but never having a really good one Im not sure how to answer this... Something that handles well......

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Would love something ready out of the box, as Ill be learning sharpening as well so having an initial edge to keep will be easier for me.... smoother push cutting and slicing as well probably.....

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
Im not sure whats realistic honestly....I would like good retention but I would also like a very sharp knife and I know thats always a compromise...


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
yes

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
yes


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

With your budget you better forget about flashy faux-Damascus. Within a few months it will look greyish. While it raises the price it does not contribute to performance.
Some solid performers I know: carbon: Fujiwara FKH, Misono Swedish Carbon AKA Dragon;
Stainless clad over carbon: Hiromoto Aogami Super;
Stainless: Hiromoto G3, Misono 440, JCK Kagayaki VG-10;
Semi-stainless: JCK Kagayaki Carbonext.
All with JCK, japaneschefsknife.com
If possible I would go for a 240mm gyuto. Shorter gyutos are often a little too narrow, and their more or less flat section is ... short. Over a 210mm gyuto I would prefer a -- wider -- thin 190 santoku, but that's a very personal preference.

I like the idea of the Misono 440 on BST. Helping a member out, and getting a reliably clean, well made, and good knife. I haven't used the 440 series, but Misono is a "you know what you're getting" company.

Another good bet might be Tanaka, and/or Hiromoto.

With the price difference with a new one and Jon having taken care of it it's rather tempting, I would say.

So it seems the running themes is buy the best knife you can afford.....

Benuser said:

With the price difference with a new one and Jon having taken care of it it's rather tempting, I would say.

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I hadn't looked at the bst here....in the other forum I've looked before and it's generally fairly high end stuff thats usually far out of my price range.....

I have no problem buying used....

One questions though....the price isn't that far off from a new knife....so what advantage do I get buying from the BST, aside from the helping out a fellow member obviously? Knowing its been well take care of and sharpened well Id assume?

loki993 said:

So it seems the running themes is buy the best knife you can afford.....



I hadn't looked at the bst here....in the other forum I've looked before and it's generally fairly high end stuff thats usually far out of my price range.....

I have no problem buying used....

One questions though....the price isn't that far off from a new knife....so what advantage do I get buying from the BST, aside from the helping out a fellow member obviously? Knowing its been well take care of and sharpened well Id assume?

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Well, think of it like letting someone else take the depreciation on a car. In this case they've also had it tuned up a bit for good measure--Jon's sharpening is top tier professional work (as in knife will perform better than new). Add in the cost of shipping and the knives are right at 140 dollars retail. The price (100) actually seems a bit low to me, you'll find that many here sell at lower costs than the knives could fetch. Either way it seems like a pretty good deal for both parties--buyer saves cash, seller recoups a good chunk of original cost.

I personally use the b/s/t as a place to sample lot's of great knives--buy it, try it until time to try something else and then resell often at roughly the same price paid. Eventually you can narrow down the exact profile and geometry that you enjoy using and then maybe take that to a custom maker and get something personal?

Cheers

Edit to add that your 100 now buys you a more expensive knife than you would have originally been able to afford.

You know what when I did the search a 119 dollar Misono came up that was not the 440 and I didn't realize, which is why I thought the price of the knife was close to new.

Im going to peruse the BST a bit and see what's there but yeah that seems like it could be the deal....

If it was in stock I'd say the Gesshin Gonbei 210mm hammered Damascus wa - gyuto.html. Great knife!

I would second the 440 Misono!

Hell, I'm tempted by the Misono, just so I can have each of their lines.

loki993 said:

So it seems the running themes is buy the best knife you can afford.....

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You won't like my suggestion, so take it as food for thought. Buy the cheapest, cheapest used would be even better, and buy the most practical set of sharpening stones. If you are not hooked, sell them to recoup the cost at minimum loss. If you are hooked, you will benefit from every penny you've spent.

Looks like the Gonbei 210 is back in stock... oke1:

ThEoRy said:

Looks like the Gonbei 210 is back in stock... oke1:

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Really like the new Ichii handles on these. Definitely a great choice. I would ask Jon to do the initial sharpening for you.

The Misono is also a nice choice, for the reasons outlined above.

ISCLAIMER:
I say this with all due respect to the knife makers: many moon ago, my then girlfriend, now soon to be wife bought me a Gekko from JCK and it was a TURD. (Gah lee I hope she doesn't read this) I actually gave it away to a stagier and told her someone stole it. DON'T DO IT. It's an aesthetic knife, not a worker. The Misono 440 is a fair buy, especially at a good price and handled previously by a pro. Follow your elders on this thread. :biggrin:

sj9603 said:

You won't like my suggestion, so take it as food for thought. Buy the cheapest, cheapest used would be even better, and buy the most practical set of sharpening stones. If you are not hooked, sell them to recoup the cost at minimum loss. If you are hooked, you will benefit from every penny you've spent.

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No thats ok...so do you mean buy the cheapest knife, within reason Im assuming, you can buy and good stones? OR cheap on both to see how I like it? Honestly on the stones I was looking at a King combo either the 1k/6k or the 800/4k

ThEoRy said:

Looks like the Gonbei 210 is back in stock... oke1:

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Timthebeaver said:

Really like the new Ichii handles on these. Definitely a great choice. I would ask Jon to do the initial sharpening for you.

The Misono is also a nice choice, for the reasons outlined above.

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This makes things difficult because I was really thinking about the Misono and actually PMed her about it....so is it worth the extra 65 bucks to get the Gonbei......

ohbewon said:

ISCLAIMER:
I say this with all due respect to the knife makers: many moon ago, my then girlfriend, now soon to be wife bought me a Gekko from JCK and it was a TURD. (Gah lee I hope she doesn't read this) I actually gave it away to a stagier and told her someone stole it. DON'T DO IT. It's an aesthetic knife, not a worker. The Misono 440 is a fair buy, especially at a good price and handled previously by a pro. Follow your elders on this thread. :biggrin:

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Yeah Im off that one for sure. I'm still trying to decide if I want a clad knife though like the Hiromoto Aogami Super. Problem is I've seen different opinions on them. If I remember correctly they're a bit thick and a little heavy right?

If Im completely honest with myself he Misono is probably the way to go...its light, its thin...everything Im looking for in a Japanese knife, just not flash. Id really like something hand forged from Sakai city...but it doesn't seem realistic on my budget to get something like that and it actually be usable....

If you want the wa appeal, and some flash, then you might always regret getting an understated knife like a Misono, regardless of whether or not it is what you "should" have. The Gonbei knives do look pretty nice, and the ichii handles are a much nicer version of the typical octagonal wa. Simple, traditional colours, and some hammer marks. If that's what you want in terms of looks, then I say get it. Jon sells great products.

I do like the flash but I'm sure as soon as a get a good knife that actually cuts stuff rather than tearing through it Ill be happy as a clam regardless. There will alway be more knives and this surely will not be my last one. The Misino would keep me at my budget with a stone, I can practice my sharpening with it and not have to cry if I mess it up. Though I was just looking at the video and Gonbei does look really nice and basically meet everything I was looking for...and I'd get to try a Wa handle too....decisions decisions..

I do have a German knife that my girlfriend just let me use...its got no edge on it, it was really bad..I've been practicing with an old oil stone she had and I've got a bit of an edge on it now. Maybe Ill just pick up a King combo and work that for a while....I won't get the Japanese feel with the knife but it will allow me to get my sharpening skills better for not too much money before I take a more expensive knife to the stone.

ohbewon said:

ISCLAIMER:
I say this with all due respect to the knife makers: many moon ago, my then girlfriend, now soon to be wife bought me a Gekko from JCK and it was a TURD. (Gah lee I hope she doesn't read this) I actually gave it away to a stagier and told her someone stole it. DON'T DO IT. It's an aesthetic knife, not a worker. The Misono 440 is a fair buy, especially at a good price and handled previously by a pro. Follow your elders on this thread. :biggrin:

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Interesting. I recall Salty being very complimentary about the Togiharu hammered damascus (which is the same OEM knife). Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Timthebeaver said:

Interesting. I recall Salty being very complimentary about the Togiharu hammered damascus (which is the same OEM knife). Different strokes for different folks I guess.

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I have the Togiharu Hammered 240mm gyuto from Korin and it's a fun knife. Definitely not mind-blowing, but a solid performer with good f&f.

fujiwara fkm 240
king 1000
norton stone flattener

Once you have a knife that is a great cutter you could care less about the flash and bling!

bahamaroot said:

Once you have a knife that is a great cutter you could care less about the flash and bling!

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Sorry not true. lol

once you have a knife that is a good cutter you will want one that cuts even better, looks better and most likely costs 5x more.

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