Picking My First Gyuto: Thoughts, Advice, and Opinions

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cazhpfan

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Dear KKF,

I am in the market for a wa gyuto. This will be my first jknife following years of using cr**y Henckels/Wusthof steel.

I've watched tons of youtube videos on knife sharpening (including John's from Japanese Knife Imports) and have started practicing using a suehiro 1000/6000 grit waterstone. The end product has been getting better with each session, but I wouldn't say that the German stainless takes a very sharp edge...

I am not completely ready to splurge ~$170-250 on a Kohetsu or Konosuke. I am interested in something more around the $100 range that will let me practice sharpening technique. However, I don't want to get something that I will "outgrow" quickly.

Preferences:

Relatively thin (I'm not sure lasers exist in this price-point).
Aogami steel (willing to take shirogami if something of good quality is available)
RHC greater than or equal to 60/61.
Wa handle

Prefer to avoid:

Kurouchi finish (tends to be rough on the cheaper knives, and I like the look of a more polished blade)

Open to considering:

eBay knives form Japan
Buying used
Saving money for that Kohetsu and hoping that I won't mess up the sharpening... :lol2:

Thank you very much ahead of time for the suggestions!

--Arthur
 
Wa handled, blue steel, polished, $100?

That's a hell of a wish list. The only thing close is the Tanaka 210mm damascus, which has a reputation as a great cutter.

http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product-list/5

As an aside, don't get hung up on steel type - the skill of the smith/heat treatment is more important. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Aogami and Shirogami. Even more important than steel type is the geometry of the blade. A knife made from unobtainium supersteel with **** geometry will cut like ****.
 
I realize the list is a little up there.

Really, what I'm looking for is good hardness, good grinds, and good cutting. I can take care of the sharpening if the OOTB edge isn't great.

Anything that does the job will work...

:thumbsup:

Timthebeaver said:
Wa handled, blue steel, polished, $100?

That's a hell of a wish list. The only thing close is the Tanaka 210mm damascus, which has a reputation as a great cutter.

http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product-list/5

As an aside, don't get hung up on steel type - the skill of the smith/heat treatment is more important. Even more important than steel type is the geometry of the blade. A knife made from unobtainium supersteel with **** geometry will cut like ****.
Click to expand...
 
Maybe a Carbonext from JCK or stretch to a Hiromoto AS.

Or look for an old forgecraft / ODC on eBay and refurb it
 
For Wa's in the 100.00 dollar range wt. decent steel you are lookng at carbons wt. plastic or resin instead of buff. horn collars.
I second Tim's metalmaster but in the 240 just a little over your 100.00 range.
 
I'm not really worried about the handle. I have two Wa handles laying around the house and should be able to rehandle if the fit and finish aren't that great.

keithsaltydog said:
For Wa's in the 100.00 dollar range wt. decent steel you are lookng at carbons wt. plastic or resin instead of buff. horn collars.
I second Tim's metalmaster but in the 240 just a little over your 100.00 range.
Click to expand...
 
I hope I'm allowed to post links on this board.

Here's the stone I have: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000DD2C9/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Based on some googling, the stone I have looks different from the Cerax,

The 1000 side is a decent cutter. The 6000 side does its job, but it sure is s-l-o-w. Anyhow, I wasn't quite sure whether I would enjoy freehand sharpening; thus, there wasn't much sense in dropping $100+ on a set of stones.

Why would this stone not work with Aogami Super? Too little cutting "power?"

Kind regards,

Arthur

Benuser said:
If the Suehiro is the one sold in Europe as Cerax, do expect serious problems with Aogami Super.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That stone will be just fine for sharpening what your looking for. The idea is to not remove more metal than you need to. A 'slow' cutter or higher grit stone is ideal for touch ups, while the 1k side will be useful for a very dull knife that hasn't been sharpened in a while.

cazhpfan said:
I hope I'm allowed to post links on this board.

Here's the stone I have: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000DD2C9/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Based on some googling, the stone I have looks different from the Cerax,

The 1000 side is a decent cutter. The 6000 side does its job, but it sure is s-l-o-w. Anyhow, I wasn't quite sure whether I would enjoy freehand sharpening; thus, there wasn't much sense in dropping $100+ on a set of stones.

Why would this stone not work with Aogami Super? Too little cutting "power?"

Kind regards,

Arthur
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Kungpao,

I have a quick question regarding sharpening the primary bevel on convex blades. I noticed that the Damascus Tanaka has a convex grind.

How am I going to thin behind the edge if there's no shinogi/lamination line to guide me?

Thank you!

kungpao said:
That stone will be just fine for sharpening what your looking for. The idea is to not remove more metal than you need to. A 'slow' cutter or higher grit stone is ideal for touch ups, while the 1k side will be useful for a very dull knife that hasn't been sharpened in a while.
Click to expand...
 
cazhpfan said:
Kungpao,

I have a quick question regarding sharpening the primary bevel on convex blades. I noticed that the Damascus Tanaka has a convex grind.

How am I going to thin behind the edge if there's no shinogi/lamination line to guide me?

Thank you!
Click to expand...

It's not a problem,simplify it by saying your primary bevel is lower spine closer to the stone,this thins a little behind the edge.Your secondary bevel is higher.A caution wt Damascus blades is don't let too much mud buildup which can scuff the Damascus.

You mentioned watching Jon's vids.In his playlist there are 24 ,For DB knives watch first 10.
 
Hi Keith,

I apologize for the late reply.

Quick question: will the Damascus "effect" wear-away as I abrade the cladding? Or is the layering continuous throughout the outer body of the knife?

I watched all of Jon's videos except the last three. :)

He really made sharpening understandable by combining theory and practice in a succinct, coherent way. :doublethumbsup:

keithsaltydog said:
It's not a problem,simplify it by saying your primary bevel is lower spine closer to the stone,this thins a little behind the edge.Your secondary bevel is higher.A caution wt Damascus blades is don't let too much mud buildup which can scuff the Damascus.

You mentioned watching Jon's vids.In his playlist there are 24 ,For DB knives watch first 10.
Click to expand...
 
The damascus will disappear as you thin; as long as you don't thin all of the cladding away, the pattern will reappear after some etching in either hot vinegar or pcb etchant.
 
Got it. Thank you!

James said:
The damascus will disappear as you thin; as long as you don't thin all of the cladding away, the pattern will reappear after some etching in either hot vinegar or pcb etchant.
Click to expand...
 
That's my first time posting on this forum, so welcome everyone. I didn't want to open a new thread, so I will stick in here.

I wanted to get a good damascus (just love the look) Gyuto, and I am considering Tanaka's 240mm VG10 one from

http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product-list/5

This knife would accompany my Victorinox 8 inch Chef's which I would use for more rough and less delicate tasks.

Since I like to be well informed before any of my purcheses, I would like to ask for an advice:

1. Is it a good knife, should I consider something else within this pricerange.
2. Should I get wood handle or the horn handle
3. Does anybody know how deep the tang reaches into the handle. Is it any concern if it doesn't reach very deep.
4. Does anybody know if it has a chisel grind or western V-grind? Should I be worried if it is one or the other?

I am open to any suggestions.
 
gnembon said:
Anybody would have an idea?
Click to expand...

It would be easier for people to answer your questions if you'd started a separate thread and answered questionnaire. But here's my 5 cents. Tanaka's VG10 knives are known to be a good value for the money. Fit and finish isn't great but you get what you pay for. Damascus on mine Tanaka is rather paled, so don't expect much from this.

There are some good knives in the same price range, but some of them are carbon, some of them with western handles and some of them can't be found on B/S/T section.

As for the handle — doesn't really matters, choose the one which looks better to you. Personally I've replaced handles on all my Tanaka's knives.

The tang is relatively short… something about 60-70mm. No concerns here.

The knife you referenced is double bevel knife with almost symmetrical grind. Unless you have some special requirements I see no problems here.

Trust me, you'd get much better replies if you start separate thread :)
 
I think you would get better help if you posted on your own thread and make sure to answer the questionaire sticky.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I went through the questionnaire in my mind and I thought I touched the important factors. I didn't find the clear instructions to post questions keeping strictly this format.

I also come from a forum (different area, different country) where they discourage newbies from creating thousands of new threads, pointing them to the search button (you search for information, and if you don't find them, you post in a relevant thread, and if there is already a thread about that, this mean, you were too lazy to find it).

Anyway, thanks for the information. If you wish I can answer the quesionaire in full:

Location: Atlantic Canada (actually, doesn't matter - can ship from anywhere)
Knife:
- type: Guyto
- right handed
- handle: doesn't matter too much, but western would be welcomed,
- length: 7 to 10in, around 8
- stainless: preferrably
- up to $150
Use:
- home, and just for the tasks when I need somethingvery sharp. As mentioned, my primary would be my Victorinox 8in Chef's
- primary use: wherever a very sharp knife is preferred: slicing, trimming meats, slicing veggies etc.
- replacing: nothing. Company for a victorinox
- primary grip: pinch
- motions: push cut, rock, slice
- Improvements: Damascus, sharpness, less wedging, good edge retention, but its not gonna be my primary knife that takes the abuse.
Maintenance:
- boards bamboo and wood
- sharpen: not yet, but plan to
- learn to sharpen: yes
- planning to purchase sharpening products: just ordered them, to have them when I need them.


-
 
gnembon said:
Thanks for the feedback. I went through the questionnaire in my mind and I thought I touched the important factors. I didn't find the clear instructions to post questions keeping strictly this format.

I also come from a forum (different area, different country) where they discourage newbies from creating thousands of new threads, pointing them to the search button (you search for information, and if you don't find them, you post in a relevant thread, and if there is already a thread about that, this mean, you were too lazy to find it).

Anyway, thanks for the information. If you wish I can answer the quesionaire in full:

Location: Atlantic Canada (actually, doesn't matter - can ship from anywhere)
Knife:
- type: Guyto
- right handed
- handle: doesn't matter too much, but western would be welcomed,
- length: 7 to 10in, around 8
- stainless: preferrably
- up to $150
Use:
- home, and just for the tasks when I need somethingvery sharp. As mentioned, my primary would be my Victorinox 8in Chef's
- primary use: wherever a very sharp knife is preferred: slicing, trimming meats, slicing veggies etc.
- replacing: nothing. Company for a victorinox
- primary grip: pinch
- motions: push cut, rock, slice
- Improvements: Damascus, sharpness, less wedging, good edge retention, but its not gonna be my primary knife that takes the abuse.
Maintenance:
- boards bamboo and wood
- sharpen: not yet, but plan to
- learn to sharpen: yes
- planning to purchase sharpening products: just ordered them, to have them when I need them.


-
Click to expand...

people here arent like that...and i know what you mean about other forums and how they will jump down your throat if you ask a question that may have been awnsered in the past....

i would suggest you still start your own thread with exactly what you just posted here:

1) your kind of hijacking cazhpfan's thread and it may be unclear on if the advice is directed at you or him

and

2) you will get better info and more responses specific to your questions that way

either way good luck finding the right knife for you, im sure everyone will be super helpful here as they always are
 
gnembon said:
Thanks for the feedback. I went through the questionnaire in my mind and I thought I touched the important factors. I didn't find the clear instructions to post questions keeping strictly this format.
Click to expand...

If you just start new thread and copy your replies from current post it should be enough. Exact format doesn't matters as long as people can understand you.

And you have an interesting request here… as you are looking for a Japanese gyuto which is going to be used as slicer — rather new concept to me :) I mean most people from KKF would probably advice you getting sujihiki instead of gyuto for slicing tasks or even yanagiba. And as for Japanese gyutos, I would think any decent JP gyuto will outperform your Victorinox knife and terms of edge retentions and cutting feeling.

Not sure if it's a good advice or not for you, but I'd order Hiromoto AS gyuto from JCK and use it for some time. With great core still and stainless clad it's an easy to maintain knife and would give you a good understanding of what is good JP gyuto. I'd guess you'd replace your victorinox pretty soon after getting Hiromoto (or any other decent gyuto). Hiromoto isn't in damascus but you can send it to Dave Martell later for a "spa" and it will look gorgeously.

Or you can go with Tanaka VG10, but it wouldn't be as good as Hiromoto AS in terms of ease of sharpening and edge retention.
 
Tanaka makes very good knives; I've sharpened and briefly played with the blue #2 damascus and ginsanko iterations. Very good cutters and he has his heat treatments down; both were super easy to sharpen, the ginsanko moreso than the blue #2
 
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