Gesshin Heiji or Kato Work Horse

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stereo.pete

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Trying to decide what I want for Christmas and I would love your thoughts and opinions. What would you choose and why, Kato or Heiji?
 
Pete, you've probably been real good this year, why not one of each?
 
if you choose kato, be careful. it can chip if you get too rough with it. the only reason i mention this is because youre saying youre looking for a work horse. sometimes we can have very different defintions of what a workhorse is.
 
The Kato westerns are a bit thinner at the spine, but cut just as well as the Wa gyuto's and the white ebony handled one is a beauty! ( I have a Kikuryu which is the fancy version) I also have a Gesshin Heiji, I don't think you can go wrong with either, I enjoy polishing the wide bevels of the Heiji on Natural stones. Flip a coin
 
Two knives I love. They both are great hefty cutters, I find the Kato cuts a little better. The Heiji is great but there are some items it doesn't agree with. The Kato is a better cutter across the board. For me it comes down to your stance on reactivity. If you don't like Shige levels of reactivity, get the SS Heiji. If caring for some rust now and then doesn't bother you, get the Kato.

One other thing is the Heiji (from Jon anyway) comes with a saya.
 
are you interested in a heiji carbon or semi stainless? i must say i prefer the qualities of katos steel over heiji carbon. kato has nicer retention, atleast in my experience it does.
 
are you interested in a heiji carbon or semi stainless? i must say i prefer the qualities of katos steel over heiji carbon. kato has nicer retention, atleast in my experience it does.

I have the semi stainless core (stainless clad) Heiji and the edge retention is fantastic, better than Kato. Never used a carbon Heiji.
 
Thanks for your insight guys. I was looking at the Semi-Stainless Heiji and the term "work horse" was used because that is what the Kato is called from maxim. Thanks for posting a link to the knife videos, I completely forgot out that thread… watching it again now.
 
I went through the same decision a month ago and picked Heiji for the following reasons:

The geometry of the kato seemed harder to maintain in the long run. The convexed geometry seemed like it would not only but harder to sharpen correctly but would require thinning more often and a higher level of skill it to.

I love my shigefusa and was interested in the connection between them both studying under the same master.

I also wanted a SS knife to use on more acidic foods since all my other gyutos are simple carbon.
 
Currently trying to make the same decision between a Kato or Heiji workhorse, and I think I will go Heiji for exactly bk's reasons.. I don't think I'm competent enough to look after Kato's geometry properly right now and my current knives are carbon (What level of reactivity is the Kato comparable to? Blue super? white 2?).

Having said that, for me at least, the Kato has a VERY special appeal. Don't know why but it seems to have a mysterious allure to it.
 
Currently trying to make the same decision between a Kato or Heiji workhorse, and I think I will go Heiji for exactly bk's reasons.. I don't think I'm competent enough to look after Kato's geometry properly right now and my current knives are carbon (What level of reactivity is the Kato comparable to? Blue super? white 2?).

Having said that, for me at least, the Kato has a VERY special appeal. Don't know why but it seems to have a mysterious allure to it.

It's not the hagane (core steel) of the Kato that is reactive. It's the soft iron jigane (cladding) that is reactive. It is on the same order as the jigane of the Shigefusa.
 
It's not the hagane (core steel) of the Kato that is reactive. It's the soft iron jigane (cladding) that is reactive. It is on the same order as the jigane of the Shigefusa.
Of course. Haven't yet had the pleasure of handling a shig.. is the clad on par with white 2 or worse?
 
Of course. Haven't yet had the pleasure of handling a shig.. is the clad on par with white 2 or worse?

Worse when it comes to reactivity.

Edit: this is based on my Shigefusa as I don't have and never used a kato
 
Of course. Haven't yet had the pleasure of handling a shig.. is the clad on par with white 2 or worse?

The soft iron is quite reactive compared to shirogami. It needs a good forced patina before it quiets down, at least in my experience. Ordinary use will do it too, but the journey is a PITA. I hate brown onions.
 
Rightio. Thanks for the information guys!

I thought confirming how reactive it was would help me stop wanting to grab a Kato so bad... WRONG! :biggrin:
 
i found that the cladding on kato and the kato grind to be very easy to thin actually. while im not sure if i maintained the factory geometry, kato should be much easier to thin compared to heiji(stainless cladding).
 
what i mean by the kato grind being easy to thin is that it seemed very easy to lay the blade on its side and apply even strokes compared to many other knives ive thinned. i wish couldve tried a heiji by now, i would be very interested in learning about the difference in performances first hand. i found shig cladding to be more reactive than kato cladding too, if that helps.
 
i never tried a kato(but i think thats gonna be my christmas gift) but the heiji semi stainless steel is great. edge retention, sharpening. When i first picked it up it felt a bit awkeward but then i started cutting and it blew my mind. Its hard to explain but its definitely something special
 
I think the Kato would be easier to thin in terms of time. Heiji makes it clear how far up the thinning has to go. With The Kato as soon as you can get over how far up the blade the scratches need to extend when thinning it becomes pretty straight forward because the grind is very consistent along the entire blade face.

image.jpg
 
I should have been more clear. When I said it would be harder to thin, I was not speaking of in terms of time. I do agree soft iron would be faster to thin then stainless steel. What I meant was it would be harder to maintain the original geometry (again I could be wrong). I also assume it would require thining more often.
 
I haven't used a Heji, but they've been on my radar for awhile.

From what I've read, it's likely that both need some thinning before reaching their full potential.

Both Kato's that I've used needed quite a bit of thinning, and I'd agree with Chuckle's sentiment that thinning a blended convex grind like a Kato is a bit trickier to figure out than knives with an obvious bevel like a Heji.

I've heard good things about the steel in the Hejis, but I must say that the 2 Kato's that I've sharpened where almost OVER hard. The steel felt more like glass than metal. Getting an aggressive and functionally sharp edge was moderately easy, but getting a crazy sharp or more refined edge was perhaps the most difficult of any steel I've sharpened (stainless included).
 
I think the Kato would be easier to thin in terms of time. Heiji makes it clear how far up the thinning has to go. With The Kato as soon as you can get over how far up the blade the scratches need to extend when thinning it becomes pretty straight forward because the grind is very consistent along the entire blade face.

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Chuckles, that is one sexy ass blade!
 
Me, too. I've never tried a Heiji, and might have bought one if I hadn't been warned off of it somewhat. I do have a Kato, however. It's a JNS Kato gyuto 'Workhorse' as distinct from other Kato gyuto, such as those which if you really try are possible to find in Japan. Anyway, it's my fav gyuto. Agreed that, though you need to attend to the bevels, get a good feel for and preserve the geometry, it's not really hard at all. I suppose a well-made knife more or less indicates to the sharpener how to go about things. Yes, the steel is hard, but for me not hard to sharpen or to get a useful edge with teeth. The knive doesn't come with a saya, which is a drawback to me, for me it's a knife I never question when I pick it up. And, oh, as for reactivity I don't find it to be very reactive anywhere, just as a workhorse should, and just gradual, natural patina in my case.
 
Id go with Kato. Wait a second...I DID go with Kato. Not because I dont like Heiji, Ive never tried them, but when I went with Kato "Workhorse", and even though the handle/tang area looked like @$$, I have been having a very difficult time putting my "Workhorse" down. Edge retention is great, sharpening is easy...a little tougher than a Takeda perse but easy. Reactivity is not like AS, and I am still getting used to how and when the tomagahane steel reacts, but its quick and small rust spots. Im really angry at myself right now for using green scrubber pad to clean the knife the other night in drunker stuppor, but wet sanding is in the future as Workhorse has some vertical lines Id like to smooth out. The drawbacks are honestly so minute that they just dont matter. The feel of the knife with its comfortable burnt chestnut handle, and its proper heft give the knife a perfect dimension of spiritual like balance. Zen you might call it. Its true. Cutting with Kato is one of the more pure experiences I have yet to have with a knife. Oh and a bout a saya...if thats really whats holding you back from purchasing a Workhorse, Im sure we can figure that out real quick like...
 
From what I've read, it's likely that both need some thinning before reaching their full potential.

Whoever wrote that is full of it. I've owned two brand new Heijis, one direct from Nakaya-san and one from Jon, and the only knives that have cut better, out of the box or not out of the box, than the Heijis have been Kagekiyos, and I've tried and owned a lot of knives (though not a non-deformed Kato, admittedly).
 
okay. the kato that we are all talking about is the kato workhorse series. generally speaking many people assume any knife that is commonly referred to as a "workhorse" could be suitable for rough work. i would like to warn any potential buyer that unless you use some microbevels, Kato will definitely get chips if you decide to work rough with it. simply because its a big thick knife, doesnt necessarily mean it can take a beating.
 
I've owned two brand new Heijis, one direct from Nakaya-san and one from Jon

I think this thread is about Gesshin Heiji, but would you recommend getting one direct? Can't be that different, you're cutting out the middle-man, and it's cheaper I believe, right?
 
I think this thread is about Gesshin Heiji, but would you recommend getting one direct? Can't be that different, you're cutting out the middle-man, and it's cheaper I believe, right?

They are pretty different knives, in the details, and the F&F on mine isn't as nice as Gesshin. There is apparently more variance on the knives, direct, but I got lucky and got a really nice one. Buying a Gesshin from Jon, you are assured to get a good one.
 
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