Anyone else feel this way?

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TheDispossessed

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Almost two years into cooking in NYC and here's some feelings I can't seem to get away from.

This industry is totally broken. Cooks are grossly underpaid, Restaurants rarely are profitable, and customers are paying more than ever for less and less food (small plates, tapas style, I say BS). This doesn't add up right?
So here's my theory:
The economy and food system is in a state of global collapse that few are willing to recognize. Fuel and food prices are skyrocketing.
The labor costs are too high, despite the fact that we get paid so little because the food is too f'in complicated to prep. Chefs are in a constant struggle for recognition and the food is actually suffering as they try to constantly outdo each other.
There are other issues, but to me, these seem to be two of the bigger ones.

I just spent a week in LA. Every Korean restaurant i went to delivered an incredible meal, loaded with the customary sides for $8.99. So my head is spinning. All these young chefs in NYC talk about value, like the think they're giving you a deal on fine dining in their hip restaurant so you should be happy to pay $30 for a 4oz piece of fish and expect the server to be visibly displeased when you opt out of first course.

Comments Please.
 
The last place I worked on Long Island was packed everyday and barely broke even. Its worse than ever and while prices of everything goes up the guys on the line still make the same amount as when I went to school 12 years ago. Im a lucky one being the executive chef for a company that has several catering places that help their restaurants out. They have money and i havent worked for someone with money in a long time. Its a good feeling but if food prices go up any more who knows whats gonna happen. I have a feeling in a year or so alot of beef is going to be cut off of menus everywhere
 
I feel ya man. Dont know what it is but something is def in the air. But a few things will always fetch money: food, sex, and drugs/alcohol. You will win in the end- hang in there man!
 
Almost two years into cooking in NYC and here's some feelings I can't seem to get away from.

This industry is totally broken. Cooks are grossly underpaid, Restaurants rarely are profitable, and customers are paying more than ever for less and less food (small plates, tapas style, I say BS). This doesn't add up right?
So here's my theory:
The economy and food system is in a state of global collapse that few are willing to recognize. Fuel and food prices are skyrocketing.
The labor costs are too high, despite the fact that we get paid so little because the food is too f'in complicated to prep. Chefs are in a constant struggle for recognition and the food is actually suffering as they try to constantly outdo each other.
There are other issues, but to me, these seem to be two of the bigger ones.

I just spent a week in LA. Every Korean restaurant i went to delivered an incredible meal, loaded with the customary sides for $8.99. So my head is spinning. All these young chefs in NYC talk about value, like the think they're giving you a deal on fine dining in their hip restaurant so you should be happy to pay $30 for a 4oz piece of fish and expect the server to be visibly displeased when you opt out of first course.

Comments Please.

I had to leave the kitchen because as a Kitchen Manager I couldn't pay the bills. I hated doing it. Cooking is in my blood, and always will be.
 
Right now in NYC, the best casual restaurants are offering line cooks between $9-12 per hour, with a rare few maybe going a little more. And as for fine dining i think it pays even worse once you consider the hours. That's insane! I mean, taking home $400-600 a week in NYC in 2013 as a skilled professional putting in 60+ hours!!! There's no way to have a decent life on that income. NO WAY. You can go into literally any retail establishment without any skills or education and get paid the same or more and putz around like a boob and get a half hour break every damn day.
Of course the servers, who give a damn even less than the dishwashers are doing fine.
THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE PEOPLE.
They did a pretty good job of getting us to think unions were bad, well look who's screwed now. Management will always screw you more than a union.
 
It might be nice to think, oh well without unions or good pay it keeps people out of the profession who don't perform or love it enough to sacrifice, but i think that's BS now. If it keeps going this way the only people who will be able to cook will be kids with money behind them.
 
The are unions in professional kitchens. From what I've seen of them has be increasingly bad cooks and a sense of lazy entitlement.

Yes, the system is crap. But... I have found that cooks live a life well beyond what most people know. Do I make a lot of money? F- no. But I can call up a number of people and have an amazing meal/night/whatever that most people that hold regular high paying jobs never will. I can work in a place where my personal weirdness is part of the family, not pushed down in a corporate HR censorship.

Long term aspects i.e. retirement, children, etc are rough for cooks. It takes planning, putting money away, not spending it all on PBR and Fernet, and pushing yourself to take a further sense of responsibility and take the step to either open your own place or work with a restaurant group that's ethics are in tune with yours.
 
if you adjust for inflation, you should see that right now food prices are at an all time low, and furthermore americans are actually paying less for food than ever in history. i think this generation of americans have come to expect meals to be bargain priced too often without consideration for the consequences(i think this has much to do with generations being raised on fast food prices). there was a time when every person understood the worth of paying good money for a good meal. now its just about the bottom line. however i cant relate to the small plate BS going on in your area, in my area fantastic restaurants put out great small plates for $8-12.
People have come to expect to pay next to nothing for cuisine sometimes, but at the sametime I agree with you many trendy restaurants charge out the a$$ for no apparent reason. ofcourse in NYC isnt the property rent almost always sky high? and to maintain you have to charge out the a$$? vicious cycle.
 
I've never understood why the industry evolved so that waitstaff makes significantly more than line cooks.

Can anyone explain how that happened??

Moreover, while my understanding from my friends who are pros is their salaries are stagnant, if anything, there has been an increase in the tips expected from 15->20% over the last 10 or 15 years and, since tips are tied to prices, waitstaff stays ahead of inflation and line drops further and further behind...

Speaking as an amateur who thinks the world of you pros, it does seem really unfair...
 
I know next to nothing about how restaurants operate. Do waitstaff not routinely split their tips with the back of house?
 
:laugh::laugh::goodpost:
uh.....hell no johnny.

When I was a lowly dishwasher back in the mid-90s there was a tip sharing process where I worked. Granted, the percentages were way off, but they punched their tips into a wall thingy and it spread a percentage of the tips out to busboys, hostess, and cooks -- but NOT the dishwasher.

k.
 
I know next to nothing about how restaurants operate. Do waitstaff not routinely split their tips with the back of house?

When I was a lowly dishwasher back in the mid-90s there was a tip sharing process where I worked. Granted, the percentages were way off, but they punched their tips into a wall thingy and it spread a percentage of the tips out to busboys, hostess, and cooks -- but NOT the dishwasher.

k.
yeah it may happen every once in a while. but certainly not anything i would characterize as "routine"
 
The OP is dead on.
It's about percentages. In order to serve a good quality center of the plate entree these days it's going to cost you and the customer. With the economy, operators wanted to keep their menu prices down but keep the same percentages. Hence the re-birth of pork and lesser cuts of beef and other animals. Along with small plates etc.
One thing I learned awhile ago was that people will try to spend what they plan to when they eat out. If the menu prices are lower they'll make it up in additional courses or on drinks. Hence the re-birth of the cocktail. But hey, that plate only cost seven bucks. (With about a buck fitty on it)
 
yeah it may happen every once in a while. but certainly not anything i would characterize as "routine"

I'm surprised that most owners/managers don't require the waitstaff to share their tips with the rest of the staff. I have had bad service in the past and still tipped well because the food was great and I thought a poor tip from me would punish the cooks!
 
Right now in NYC, the best casual restaurants are offering line cooks between $9-12 per hour, with a rare few maybe going a little more. And as for fine dining i think it pays even worse once you consider the hours. That's insane! I mean, taking home $400-600 a week in NYC in 2013 as a skilled professional putting in 60+ hours!!! There's no way to have a decent life on that income. NO WAY. You can go into literally any retail establishment without any skills or education and get paid the same or more and putz around like a boob and get a half hour break every damn day.
Of course the servers, who give a damn even less than the dishwashers are doing fine.
THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE PEOPLE.
They did a pretty good job of getting us to think unions were bad, well look who's screwed now. Management will always screw you more than a union.

NYC seems like the most brutal market to be in as a cook. There has been a lot of press about how hard it is getting for restaurants to find cooks. I've never been to New York so I don't know what it's like - but those numbers seems ridiculous. Cooks don't really live great ever :rofl2: but you can get by on that sort of pay easier in other areas.

Then again you do have different experiences. If I was cooking dope Japanese vegetarian tasting menus all night then I would be ***** tap dancing down them streets... Until I realized a pack of smokes cost me $12
 
Right now in NYC, the best casual restaurants are offering line cooks between $9-12 per hour, with a rare few maybe going a little more. And as for fine dining i think it pays even worse once you consider the hours. That's insane! I mean, taking home $400-600 a week in NYC in 2013 as a skilled professional putting in 60+ hours!!! There's no way to have a decent life on that income. NO WAY. You can go into literally any retail establishment without any skills or education and get paid the same or more and putz around like a boob and get a half hour break every damn day.
Of course the servers, who give a damn even less than the dishwashers are doing fine.
THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE PEOPLE.
They did a pretty good job of getting us to think unions were bad, well look who's screwed now. Management will always screw you more than a union.
*** you got that right, but I didn't think it was THAT bad?? I have only intervened at two places in the city recently and I thought there line cooks were getting payed a little low, but I guess not? I thought to myself that the place gets away with it B/C cooks just want the name on there resume. Now it's A little funny that during a interview I asked the management "what's the biggest challenge you find running this restaurant", the answer??? Employee turnover, double edged sword.
I have notice that kitchen pay has been getting worse over the past 5-6 years... Yes waitstaff somehow now make more than some cooks hourly and get tips, it's even better I have never herd waitstaff complain so much about their paychecks! I guess back in the day there was nothing to complain about (pun intended), but seriously they actually complain that they're only getting minimum wage... It's making me feel old but seriously a lot of these kids have no clue that waitstaff used to make, what 3.25 a few years ago??
Back to the kitchen, my 1st job in NY (and the reason I moved here) was way out on long island in west Hampton. I was just hired as a cook (but did the job of a sous chef ), the pay range in the kitchen was $10-$18 cash and dishwasher got 8, this was 1998. The restaurant I'm at now the kitchen is getting $10-$12 on the books, this is crap pay but I know it's not that much better elsewhere... And after reading this thread I really know it's not that much better elsewhere.

note to self: think of possible career change?
 
wow...screw that pay. im in a small market myself but i make quite a bit more holding down the broiler 55hours a week. if i could relive my 20s all over again i wouldve loved to slave away at some famous/trendy/whatever place where i could absorb whatever knowledge those above me were willing to share. but payrates like that....its like they almost want employee turnovers.
 
I worked mostly Hotels,the reasturant Waiter's shared wt. busboys.Only during Christmas they would give cooks & pantry that served them 50.00 each.

I can't complain working close to 40 yrs. in the kitchen.I started out as busboy at a reasturant then went to waiter it was not for me,I sucked.Italian reasturant in Waikiki,Chef asked me if wanted to cook that was it.

Most Hotels had Union,workers could not be lazy in the kitchen,with pay & benefits of workers we were never overstaffed.I got alot of help setting up parties & putting up Ice scluptures fr.banquet busboys.Only Kahala was like that people always jump in to help were it was needed,no that's not my job stuff.

It does seem that many in the US grew up on fast food,some of these kids that ate junk all their life have medical problems in their 30's & 40's.Janice & I like to go out and eat tho mostly I cook at home.We like Japanese food,Korean is good too wt. the fresh vegitables.I like to eat Mexican.Rarely do we pay more than 20.00 each we both like seafood so I cook alot of fish.
 
Since day one at my place I've always made it policy that 5% of service tips goes to the back of the house. From dish to lead line cook, but not salaried employees, only hourly.Ultimately it doesn't amount to much, maybe gas money for one week, but it's still something.

Now things are changing though. Our brilliant governor of Maryland has decided to create a law that disallows employers to "take" from a server's gratuity. Yet if we as a restaurant add auto gratuity to a check, we can then distribute these tips as we see fit. The only catch is we as a restaurant we are now responsible to pay a 6% tax on this tip which then goes on to an employee's check and gets taxed again. If we wanted to, we could charge the guest this 6% tax but this would just look weird on a check and create problems with guests for certain. Now, if the party is 10 guests or more,I believe there's a tax relief or simply no tax at all on the gratuity. Strangely I can't recall, but I know we never auto-grat unless the party is ten or more, unless it's our chef's table which seats up to 8. In which case the kitchen gets a bit larger cut of the gratuity since it basically does most of the work.
 
Also keep in mind that cooks can always earn more, say like 15$+ an hour by working for those big corporate steak house places or cheese cake factories. You don't learn sh*t and have piss for a future for the most part, but you get a better paycheck for the moment.
 
I have found that paying a couple of dollars more per hour is worth it. Less wasted food and much higher productivity. If labor is at 12% and food cost runs at 30% the chances of hitting 27% food cost are MUCH better if you let your labor drift to 13% by investing in a one or two higher hourly rates. A true bad a$$ in the kitchen is still a tremendous value at $15 per hour.

Of course no one thinks that way. I once tried to leave a sous position at a very nice restaurant to go hourly because I was burning out. I couldn't find anything that would start over $12.
 
I am going to open my mouth, when I do I usually add my foot in there. But as non-restaurant person, I am just a home cook, is it because the cost of food is going up? In a large metro area like NYC transportation cost of food has to be astronomical? If your food costs would go down would that help? I am curious I and another gentlemen have been working on an idea.
 
I have been making $10-$12/h for the past 7 years in the food industry. It just doesnt get much better than this. The place im at now, I told him I will walk if he pays me less than $12, and he said ok- hell pay me, but his salary guys average a lot less than that. What I hate is that most restaurants in washington state pay out a dividend of $1/hour from the waiters tips. WHAT THE $&@!. Pisses me off so bad. I sweat run burn myself cut myself and have to be precise and thoughtful where the servers are slow and retarded and get paid 3-6x more per night just because of tips. Ive seen tips stuffed in pockets, Ive noticed on average $20 tips at tables, but I get $1 an hour and that gets recorded and taxed at the end of the year. BULLSH@t! Server a few weeks ago: "oh my gosh guys you wont believe it, they said it was the best food ever and they left us a $100 tip". Great, well I only got one fin dollar per hour tip out that day. Wish she would have kept her mouth shut. Now im all fired up because of this thread and prolly gonna be a jerk at work towards the waitstaff today. Great.

Oh yeah the two best paying jobs Ive had in the food industry were soulless bs sandwich place jobs where I worked as cook and server at the same time and I canned them both for much lesser pay and more respect for food. Fml.
 
Try running a kitchen in the midst of a Country Club, while the GM, AGM, club manager, asst. club manager, F&B director, asst. F&B director, team captains and the maitre di all chat and drink coffee; so loud, mind you, I have to shout tickets to the cooks.

But I'm at the top of my payscale already...kissoff!!!
 
I think its New York to be honest. Im from All over Maryland and PA area, working everywhere from isolated fine dinning bed and breakfasts to down town Baltimore and Washington DC and a touch in Philly and then I moved to Chicago. I have always had the ability to earn a solid living and make good money. even when I left management to go back to a line cook position for Michel Richard and then moved to Chicago to work at TRU I was making around 1k every 2 weeks. its not like I was swimming in it but at least I could put gas in the truck and pay bills. I think its just that you are in NYC and EVERYTING is so inflated in that market, its part of why I never wanted to live there, Thomas Keller couldn't pay me enough to.

In Chicago we have an absurd amount of local places for just the local people. sure you can blow your 5-700$ for a meal at TRU or GRACE because they have micheline stars. Or even go to Girl and the Goat and spend 200$, but whenever anyone comes to town and asks where I, being the chef, wants to eat we never travel much more than 20 minutes from my aptment and the check is rarely over 25$ a person, maybe a little more if you get good booze. but truth is the best food in CHI is the local BYOB taco joint, Korean chicken wing place, ect ect ect where the food is awesome and the menu is small and cheep. I think its the market your working in to be honest. That's just NYC
 
I think its New York to be honest. Im from All over Maryland and PA area, working everywhere from isolated fine dinning bed and breakfasts to down town Baltimore and Washington DC and a touch in Philly and then I moved to Chicago. I have always had the ability to earn a solid living and make good money. even when I left management to go back to a line cook position for Michel Richard and then moved to Chicago to work at TRU I was making around 1k every 2 weeks. its not like I was swimming in it but at least I could put gas in the truck and pay bills. I think its just that you are in NYC and EVERYTING is so inflated in that market, its part of why I never wanted to live there, Thomas Keller couldn't pay me enough to.

In Chicago we have an absurd amount of local places for just the local people. sure you can blow your 5-700$ for a meal at TRU or GRACE because they have micheline stars. Or even go to Girl and the Goat and spend 200$, but whenever anyone comes to town and asks where I, being the chef, wants to eat we never travel much more than 20 minutes from my aptment and the check is rarely over 25$ a person, maybe a little more if you get good booze. but truth is the best food in CHI is the local BYOB taco joint, Korean chicken wing place, ect ect ect where the food is awesome and the menu is small and cheep. I think its the market your working in to be honest. That's just NYC

I agree with you it must be NYC not just because of the cost of living they seem to pay people lower which doesn't seem to equate I am in NJ and I am not getting paid terrible at all since i just graduated culinary school last week
 
I have found that paying a couple of dollars more per hour is worth it. Less wasted food and much higher productivity. If labor is at 12% and food cost runs at 30% the chances of hitting 27% food cost are MUCH better if you let your labor drift to 13% by investing in a one or two higher hourly rates. A true bad a$$ in the kitchen is still a tremendous value at $15 per hour.

Of course no one thinks that way. I once tried to leave a sous position at a very nice restaurant to go hourly because I was burning out. I couldn't find anything that would start over $12.

Wow hard to believe sous position that cheap.Union Banquet chef & Head Gardemanger same pay 24.00 an hour worked them both.Thats why I stayed in the Union,managment you work unreal hours for what?And I have a pension & Med. Dental benefits for retirement.Nurses make 38.00 an hour in Hawaii.Some Nurses retire early to take care of seniors.They tear down old family house & build a bigger one with lots of rooms & no yard.Then they pack the houses with seniors & make a bloody fortune.
 
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