The Gyuto Plunge

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eighteesix

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Hello. First post--more info below questionnaire. Thank you!

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Chef/Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Not sure, leaning Japanese 'D'

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
~240mm 10"

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
~$200



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, filleting fish, trimming meats, anything but bone tasks.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
N/A

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Improving my Pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Depends how dull the knife is. I try to use primarily slice and push cut. Drawing if the knife is dull, sometimes rocking if mincing. Trying to avoid.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics -- seamless from blade to handle, open to finishes and handles

Comfort -- improved balance and light to medium weight, better handle, decent pinch area for thumb comfort

Ease of Use -- preferably ability to use the knife right out of the box, decent food release, low-medium maintenance.

Edge Retention -- at least several months without sharpening.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
Yes, bamboo

Do you sharpen your own knives?
Sharpening steel only, for now.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives?
Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives?
Yes, in time.


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
I've been looking closely at a number of Gyutos:
Tojiro DP 240mm (VG10)
Shun Classic 10" (VG10)
Hiromoto Gyuto 240mm (comes in both stainless and carbon -- Gingami No.3 and Aogami Super respectively)

I'm under the impression the first two are all stainless and the third is carbon core with stainless clad. All within my price range, fairly light weight.

I used a Wusthof 10" Classic Chef and it was very heavy (9.8oz). The 10" Shun classic was preferable in weight (8.4oz?).

Would prefer stainless steel OR carbon steel with stainless clad covering portion/most of blade for stain/patina resistance/control (ie Hiromoto Aogami Super Gyuto 240mm).

Looking for alternative recommendations or advice on my choices. This is my first blade that I intend to care for.
 
I personally would recommend the hiromoto AS. They are in my opinion the best knives for people getting into jknives. It's a lot of bang for your buck and the stainless cladding makes caring for them easier. Plus if so inclined in the future you can get them spruced up.
 
Plus if so inclined in the future you can get them spruced up.
What do you mean by spruced up? Example?

Where would I find the AS for purchase?

Also, I don't see that Hiromoto makes any petty sized knives. Any recommendation there?
 
I just took my 210mm Hiro AS gyuto into the shop and had the spine and choil rounded. I love using that knife now. Other options for sprucing it up include thinning the blade behind the edge, but leaving the spine intact.

The Hiro AS is indeed low maintenance for a carbon edge -- its cladding is stainless, and the cutting edge takes patina so nicely and seems pretty unreactive in general.
 
There are people, most notably Dave Martell from japaneseknifesharpening, who do things like acid etch, re-handle, thin, round the spine, ect. You can get them at japanesechefsknife.com and a few other places. The AS is the same as the carbon sereies. AS is for aogami super. One thing I will say, even if you don't go for the hiromoto, don't get a shun. This is just my opinion but there are way better knives for cheaper. I think the majority of other forum members would agree.
 
I did enjoy the Shun handle so I was considering it for my petty blade. Alternative suggestions there?

I may re-handle the hiromoto in favor of a D shaped butt.
 
I didn't noticed that you wanted a japanese style handle. It isn't so easy to rehandle a western knife to a wa handle. There are countless of quality knives with the Japanese style handles I would recommend over shun and at a better price. Check out japaneseknifeimports.com, japanesechefsknife.com, epicedge.com, korin.com. There are many clad and stainless knives. I personally prefer clad carbon. There are also several people on this forum who will rehandle japanese knives as well. Some of the ho wood handles that come with the knives aren't the prettiest. Just remember it's over $100 for new handle and to get it installed.
 
I've never used a Hiromoto gyuto so I may not re handle it. I just preferred the shun handle to the wusthof handle. I've been using western style handles for 10 years though. I don't see a handle making or breaking my decision on the hiromoto, but if I do decide to examine other makers based on handle I'm not sure what brands to look at. I will look through some other clad carbon options.
 
Both the G3 and especially the AS by Hiromoto are exceptional performers in their price category. If you are particulary attentive to Fit&Finish you might have a look at the Misonos. With the Hiromotos you get the better steel for less money though. That's why people put expensive handles on them, because the blade is worth of it.
All with JCK, japanesechefsknife.com
 
after revisiting JCK i noticed hiromoto does in fact have petty knives. does it makes sense to also get a petty knife in carbon (the matching one)? or stainless? different brand?

i see some of these are well recommended:
Kansui Dojo
Hattori FH Item# FH-3
Misono UX10Ryusen Blazen
Masamoto VG
Tojiro DP
 
I'd stay clear from the kansui dojo and tojiro dp. Hattori and Masamoto vg are both good knives. I am not the biggest fan of vg-10 stainless but that is just a personal preference. It is a good steel especially for the home cook. I've never used the Ryusen Blazen but powdered stainless steels are are very good if done right. I don't like the misono ux10 at all but a lot of people do. I still think the hiromoto is better than all of them and a better price.
 
What do you mean by spruced up? Example?

Where would I find the AS for purchase?

Also, I don't see that Hiromoto makes any petty sized knives. Any recommendation there?

[video=youtube;3loKz9cTyto]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3loKz9cTyto[/video]
 
hattori's VG10 is hands down the best heat treat of VG10 anywhere. which says a lot about their knife line (HD). really good stuff. so if there's anything to say about Ryusen's Blazen which are also the same people that does the heat treating for hattori's vg10 line, their powdered stainless should be pretty darn good as well.

=D
 
Dojo used to be a better value. Its easier to except imperfections at $40 than the current $70. It's still stainless clad AS steel, though...
 
after revisiting JCK i noticed hiromoto does in fact have petty knives. does it makes sense to also get a petty knife in carbon (the matching one)? or stainless? different brand?

i see some of these are well recommended:
Kansui Dojo
Hattori FH Item# FH-3
Misono UX10Ryusen Blazen
Masamoto VG
Tojiro DP

It makes sense to have a stainless petty if your gyuto is a carbon. From time to time you will have to deal will acidic fruit and other stuff you don't want to dull your carbon edge.
As a petty will always get some abuse, and has only a small contact area with the board, it will get sharpened quite often and wear out relatively fast. I wouldn't pay more than some $80 for a basic one. I use myself mainly a G3, boring but effective.
 
It makes sense to have a stainless petty if your gyuto is a carbon. From time to time you will have to deal will acidic fruit and other stuff you don't want to dull your carbon edge.
As a petty will always get some abuse, and has only a small contact area with the board, it will get sharpened quite often and wear out relatively fast. I wouldn't pay more than some $80 for a basic one. I use myself mainly a G3, boring but effective.
I assumed as much. Definitely effective.

However, this brings up another issue. I originally had counted out a carbon knife not because of upkeep/maintenance but because I wanted one knife to do almost everything with. I understand there's acidic fruit that should be avoided (and other things), but is there a specific list items that are too acidic or things I should avoid with a carbon knife?
 
Depends somewhat on the carbon. Aogami Super e.g. is poorly reactive -- contains some chromium.
If you've tons of sweet peppers to cut and you do have a stainless I would suggest to take the stainless. The combination of a hard skin and highly acidic content will dull your carbon blade somewhat -- your stainless as well, by the way, but at a lesser degree.
In general though if you wipe the edge in time, yes, in time, there's no problem. Just as one should do with a stainless as well...
 
That does make since with a petty. I will say that with the clad knives a patina often looks nice. On straight up carbon blades not so much. It gives a contrast to the jigne and hagne. That's not saying you want to let them rust or corrode. It not that hard to wipe a knife off and you can always rub it with a cleaner like fitz for 30 secs.
 
hmm that's a bit concerning. I eat a lot of peppers and tomatoes. I do not have a quality stainless as backup--the one I do have has been a workhorse for 7 years and has seen it's last days.
 
I don't think the issues for a home cook are the same as for a pro chef. If someone were slicing large quantities of acidic foods, that would be extended exposure of the edge to the acidic food. For smaller quantities, I don't think it's as big a deal. My $.02.
 
I used AS steel in Hiromoto alot at work as well as other carbons.As Gardemanger huge amount of acidic fruits like,pineapple,grapefruit,oranges,lemons,& large quantities of tomato's.With some jobs would keep a folded damp cloth at edge of board.

I used quality carbon & the edges held up very well.Much better than most stainless.The Hiromoto AS petty is a great workhorse small blade.Get them both & a whetstone to sharpen,you can put a killer edge on the AS steel & have better edge retention.It is a good bang for the buck for quality steel.
 
OK great thanks for that.

gladly take any other opinions on petty blade.
 
OK great thanks for that.

gladly take any other opinions on petty blade.

Well, JCK offers Fujiwara FKM which is great value for the money. Stainless and pretty cheap. I like mine.
Carbonext is another good option from JCK. A bit more expensive, but can take a better edge.

At home I'm using sharpening steel maybe once in a week or so… not because knives are dull, but more because I'm bored and wanted to sharpen something :)
 
wondering-- do people use sharpening steel after each use on petty knives?

as far as sharpening, if I don't plan on sharpening my own blades immediately would it be a bad idea to bring the AS gyuto to a professional sharpener?
 
All steels are not the same,coarse & diamond steels can screw up an edge over time,I like polishing steels or smooth ceramics,these are quite capable of realining your edge extending your prep time between the stone sharpenings.

The forschner combo-cut steel(fine-smooth) 12" will work well if used properly.Around 30.00.When using a steel angle is important,the same as or a hair over your final bevel on the stone.Light measured strokes,not pressing hard on the steel.

Learning to freehand on a stone will free you up from depending on other's to sharpen for you.Some sharpeners use belts,it is much better to learn sharpening yourself.It is not that hard just good technique & some motor skills.
 
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