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  1. #1

    looking for a Gyuto upgrade

    After registering for the forum and a long pause therefter i am thinking about knifes a bit more again.
    I only own a japanese 'beginner's set' with western handles and sharpened by Dave Martell, which i bought used from the BST on badgerandblade. This now needs repair/upgrading. I damaged the edges on my two Gyuto, the last one on a very hard hungarian salami which had something hard in it. I should have a professional knife sharpener have a look at them. The Honesuki needs less repair/sharpening and the slicer and paring knife still go strong.

    So, the need for a functional Gyuto made me looking for at least one new knife. Also, i'd like to use this situation to upgrade the knife and try a knife with a traditional japanese handle.


    LOCATION
    What country are you in?

    - Germany

    KNIFE TYPE
    What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

    - Gyuto.

    Are you right or left handed?

    - Right handed.

    Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

    - Japanese Handle, octagon shape.

    What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

    - 270mm, 240mm possible (i ended up using the Nenox 270mm almost exclusively, i think it was both the shape and the length that made me use it mostly)

    Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

    - I am unsure still if i want a stainless, semi-stainless, stainless-clad/carbon core or carbon steel.

    What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

    - 750 USD. Goal: around 500 USD, less would be good, more if i can justify it.

    KNIFE USE
    Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

    - At home.

    What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

    - Cutting everything that's not on a tree by the count of three, the exeption being harsh things for instance involving bones and fishbones (and hard hungarian salamis).

    What knife, if any, are you replacing?

    - Nenox 270mm Gyuto (not replacing but adding another one).

    Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

    - Hammer grip mostly.

    What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

    - All (depending on the use) but no draw or walk.

    What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)


    Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

    - Handle: Japanese handle type octagonal, possible one with more weight than standard, good grip.
    - Blade: Form should follow function, open minded for the aesthetics of the geometry and surface.
    - Overall: High quality knife.
    No additional (fancy) aesthetic attributes that do not have a utility value (apart from the maker's markings).


    Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

    - Handle as above, rounded spine/choil would be nice, no real preferences on the weight of the knife as that could rule out otherwise fine choices.

    Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

    - Out of the box sharp, or sharpened before shipped as a service. My other knifes were sharpened by Dave Martell and i'd like to have similar edges. I have to learn to sharpen knifes by myself yet.

    - Easy to sharpen would be a plus

    Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

    - As good as possible considering other attributes/tradeoffs.

    KNIFE MAINTENANCE
    Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

    - I use a huge and a big butcher block from the Boardsmith (Black Cherry). These are one of the finest products i've ever bought.

    Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

    - No.

    If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

    - Yes.

    Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

    - Yes.

    SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

    - I see value in all things handmade or made with a dedication to deliver a quality long-lasting product. These things are usually already beautiful without additional beautifications. That does not mean i'd not get a knife with a plain stainless steel blade). I think i would like custom wooden handles, but i don't require such on the knife i am looking for right now.

    I'll be glad for any input on the knife as well as where to get it from.

    Greetings, Tom.

  2. #2
    Shoot man. For 500 bucks you can get just about anything. DT itk if you can get one. Heiji, takeda, and konosuke fujiwara, are carbon and iron clad.
    Yoshikane is a great stainless clad semi-stainless.
    Tanaka r2 stainless
    Etc, etc.
    A lot of these will come with rather plain handles. There are many talented craftsmen here that can rehandle it for you at a later time.

    Get a king 1000 and a king 6000 and A flattening stone and you will be all set.
    "Sucking at something is the first step to becoming sorta good at something." -Jake the Dog

  3. #3
    ya, i increased my budget from USD 300 to around 500 after browsing knifes for a while, realizing that this would open up more choices indeed. One can get irresponsible easily shopping tangible goods

    You mentioned Heiji, i found a Heiji Semi-Stainless i've seen on JKI interesting. Need to read up on the others you mentioned. Thanks for the tips. What do you mean by DT, is it 'Diamond Titanium'? That's what i could come up with with a quick lookup.

    For sharpening, i already have a 1000/6000 japanese combo stone, unmarked. Non flattening stone yet tho.

    Cheers, Tom.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
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    DT is Devin Thomas...pretty highly regarded maker.

  5. #5
    thank you, i should have looked in the vendor list.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaJ View Post
    thank you, i should have looked in the vendor list.
    a Google search for "dt itk" brings up Devin's page and a bunch of KKF posts first. No biggie...the initialisms can be frustrating to sort through.

    I don't have suggestions for you in the range, the only one of these that I've got is a DT ITK, and I don't even have that yet; it's on the way to Devin for thinning and refinishing. Best of luck to ya.

  7. #7
    Senior Member labor of love's Avatar
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    $500 budget? yeah i wouldnt narrow your search to the dt itk just yet. im not really certain an itk is much of an upgrade from a nenox anyway. perhaps you could find something a little easier to sharpen first maybe a carbon steel knife or even stainless clad carbon if youre worried about reactivity. if you can afford a $500 gyuto, then i would also suggest something other than king, as you can buy much better stones for not too much more money(bester,beston,sigma power all come to mind). just keep browsing this site and its vendors sites for knives, if you have a good understanding of how you cut you should be able to look at knife edge profiles any figure out what would be most comfortable knife for you to use. again i must insist if your still learning sharpening, try and find something that sharpens up easily so you wont lose your patience or get frustrated.

  8. #8
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    i would invest the extra $200 towards stones and start with a slightly cheaper gyuto and paring knife

    =D

  9. #9
    Senior Member Nmko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labor of love View Post
    $500 budget? yeah i wouldnt narrow your search to the dt itk just yet. im not really certain an itk is much of an upgrade from a nenox anyway. perhaps you could find something a little easier to sharpen first maybe a carbon steel knife or even stainless clad carbon if youre worried about reactivity. if you can afford a $500 gyuto, then i would also suggest something other than king, as you can buy much better stones for not too much more money(bester,beston,sigma power all come to mind). just keep browsing this site and its vendors sites for knives, if you have a good understanding of how you cut you should be able to look at knife edge profiles any figure out what would be most comfortable knife for you to use. again i must insist if your still learning sharpening, try and find something that sharpens up easily so you wont lose your patience or get frustrated.
    +1 spot on...

  10. #10
    Thank you all for the good input. Right, i should invest something in good sharpening equipment (and time).

    After some searching and reading the following are interesting:

    - Gesshin Ginga 270 mm Stainless Wa-Gyuto, 285 USD
    - Gesshin Heiji 270 mm Semi-Stainless Wa-Gyuto, 600 USD
    - Suisin INOX Honyaki 270 mm Wa-Gyuto, 420 USD

    Some examples of knifes that were interesting but not available or sold out where i found them:

    - Gengetsu 270 mm Stainless Clad White #2 Wa-Gyuto, 405 USD
    - Gengetsu 270 mm Stainless Wa-Gyuto, 450 USD
    - Gesshin Ginga 270 mm White #2 Wa-Gyuto, 285 USD
    - Gesshin Ittetsu 270 mm White #2 Hon-Kasumi Wa-Gyuto, 500 USD
    - Kochi 270 mm Kurouchi Stainless Clad Carbon Wa-Gyuto, 310 USD
    - Shigefusa Kasumi 270 mm Wa-Gyuto, 650 USD
    - Konosuke Fujiyama Blue #2 270 mm Wa-Gyuto, 440 USD
    - Yoshikane Tamamoku 270 mm V2 Wa-Gyuto, 480 USD

    It seems that the 270 mm blade length is limiting. Also many knifes i find interesting are simply not available. I need to search a bit more.

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