Which would you pick?

I have a 210 Shigefusa that I love, finally found the perfect grind and profile for me. But I'm considering looking for something stainless clad for less upkeep. I push cut and chop a little and obviously like a blade that slides through food (don't we all?). I like flatter profiles and very much want to keep a similar performance and grind. Given that, which would be a good knife for me:

Yoshikane Hammer finish
Masakage Yuki
Masakage Koishi
Terayasu Fujiwara Maboroshi no Meito
Kanehiro

I'm going to leave the advice to people with more experience than me - I've only used one of the knives mentioned - but I find it's hard to get information on Masakage knives here. I own a Yuki 240mm and here are some pictures in the hope they'll help with your selection. I am a terrible photographer, but bear with me...

http://i.imgur.com/oGuQCcE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kFdXKGE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0h722vf.jpg

I tried to attach the pictures and they were frickin massive... The links show up scaled to a reasonable size in my browser, hopefully it works for y'all

I have a Masakage Yuki and a Yoshikane hammered. Neither one is up to the standard set by the Shigefusa. The Masakage Yuki has a wide beveled blade with an abrupt shoulder and will wedge when cutting anything thicker than the bevel (think carrots). The Yoshikane hammered is not quite as bad, but does not glide through food like the Shigefusa. I have no experience with the other three knives you are considering.

If you are looking for a stainless clad knife that has a geometry that approximates a Shigefusa, you might consider the Itinomonn knives that Maksim sells at Japanese Natural Stones.

Rick

I actually just bought an Itinomonn parer. And you are right, that is *almost* perfect - but too much belly for my tastes.

Stainless Kochi from JKi might be a good choice.

How is the profile on the Kochi? Looks pretty curved from the pics?

Too bad about the Masakage, it seems all these knives with cool finishes want to try maximize the size of the finish instead of producing a proper grind. Any of them a better candidate for thinning than the others?

augerpro said:

How is the profile on the Kochi? Looks pretty curved from the pics?

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looks pretty good to me.

I love my gengetsu, then again that kochi stainless clad line looks nice. Anybody here tried one yet?

richmond laser AS, seriously it's a sick knife, i tried one without bias.

panda said:

richmond laser AS, seriously it's a sick knife, i tried one without bias.

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are you serious?

yes, and if it were full carbon and not stainless clad i would get one myself.

lol!

The 210 Kochi is out of stock. Does look pretty good though.

I have owned both the Yuki and the Koishi gyutos from Masakage, and in my opinion they are not good cutters at all. They are much too wide behind the edge and have wide shoulders - as mentioned above. The Itionomonn (or Kato) is a much better choice if you're looking for the 'gliding through' sensation. I havn't, however, used a Shige.

Augerpro, does your Shig have a patina? Is the upkeep you're referring to the reactivity?

Yeah it patinas, but some things, especially garlic, give it orange spots immediately that really freaks me out and it really doesn't matter if it is patina'ed already when that happens. I've done several methods of patina, mustard, vinegar, BKF, etc. None really prevent that orange spotting. Also I have a wet rag that I wipe it on every time I set down when prepping, and that has really helped. Still though, I wonder if I can get 95% of the Shig performance with no frequent BKF cleanings and re-patinaing with mustard or lemons in another knife.

The word on the street is that scrubbing your knife w baking soda can reduce reactivity.

Sure, but stay away from the very edge. But if you polish the area right behind it it shouldn't be such a problem.

I've always found that Shigs settled down eventually, especially if you refinish them, as the OOTB finish exacerbates the issue. My carbon Heiji doesn't have the same problem as OOTB Shigs, despite being the same materials, and I'm sure it's because of the different finish.

Benuser said:

Sure, but stay away from the very edge. But if you polish the area right behind it it shouldn't be such a problem.

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Due to dulling the edge?

EdipisReks said:

I've always found that Shigs settled down eventually, especially if you refinish them, as the OOTB finish exacerbates the issue. My carbon Heiji doesn't have the same problem as OOTB Shigs, despite being the same materials, and I'm sure it's because of the different finish.

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What kind of refinish do you suggest?

As far as the subject of thread, I'll either wait for the Kochi to come back in stock, or buy the Yoshikane I'm thinking.

Sandpaper. Just replicate the existing scratch pattern (go heel to tip, only) on coarse and then medium wet/dry (use it wet). As long as you don't catch the edge, there isn't much danger if messing things up.

If you keep the area right behind the edge more or less polished you won't have to worry to much about oxidation. And indeed, all that scrubbing will dull the edge.

labor of love said:

I love my gengetsu, then again that kochi stainless clad line looks nice. Anybody here tried one yet?

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Got one, love it. Like the slender/shorter profile better than the old Kochis. F&F is of course on point, wicked thin behind the edge and holds it well. Nice middle weight, sick cutter, dont have to baby it.

Just wet sanded with 1000, than 2000 grit, followed by 0000 steel wool. We'll see how it does later today.

Well it does appear less reactive now. garlic still left a couple little marks, but not like before. I think I may have overpolished though, it seems a little stickier.

augerpro said:

As far as the subject of thread, I'll either wait for the Kochi to come back in stock, or buy the Yoshikane I'm thinking.

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Anyone out there to have used both of these? Also anyone have feedback regarding my last comment on polishing having increased stiction?

augerpro said:

Anyone out there to have used both of these? Also anyone have feedback regarding my last comment on polishing having increased stiction?

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I have.

If you can stand it, wait for the Kochi, otherwise settle for the Yoshikane as it is not a bad knife at all.

i have come to the conclusion that polished blade face indeed increased sticktion. where as a rough finish food comes off. try it, on one face polish the other side scratch it up. now cut a potato right handed and then left handed see for yourself.

augerpro said:

Anyone out there to have used both of these? Also anyone have feedback regarding my last comment on polishing having increased stiction?

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Go over it again with 320 sandpaper. Over-polishing is exactly why I recommended coarse/medium paper, as I have done that to Shigs before, and they do get sticky when brightly polished, in my experience. You could also try a hot-vinegar bath, now that it's has been polished. After the vinegar bath, hit it with a green scrubby to get the gunk off.

How much are you using the knife?A carbon blade used alot forms a natural patina cutting various kinds of food.Using a rag on corner board is good.Don't worry about every little stain.After the patina is formed only the polished edge can rust,after it patina's with alot of cutting not a problem either.If you polish the blade every time it stains you will go through danger of rust all over again.

When finished wash with soap & warm water,dry completely & oil it if not using the next day.If a patina bothers you,better off getting a quality stainless.But you have a superb cutter.

I agree with Panda polished blades can increase sticktion.Also a patina carbon on the stones no fingerpad slip on the face of the blade.I only cleaned my Yanagi's,they didn't stain that much anyway cutting only fish.My Gyuto's cut everything.