Hamon Line

Wait till you see the description of the hamon line knives


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chefcomesback said:

Wait till you see the description of the hamon line knives

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I had to Google this and when I found it I laughed my ass off.

For those of you that are fans of hamons we came up with a unique line of knives that feature a nice hamon pattern that the maker calls electro cardiogram. It's very unique. The blades are made using blue paper #1 steel.

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"Electro cardiogram" = Bead Blasting? :rofl2:

Man I can't wait to see what they look like after the first sharpening session.

It is hard to imagine a knife retailer AND a knife maker coming up with that product and walking away saying mission accomplished. It is a real head scratcher. :scratchhead:

I cant find it can someone post a link

jai said:

I cant find it can someone post a link

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Links to that site won't work here. Type "richmond hamon" into a search engine.

Well, when I sharpen my edge creates electromagnetic radiation. The photon transfer acts like a laser beam. In a vacuum it becomes invisible to the naked eye, and actually time travels. I am currently cutting tomorrow's prep right now, while typing this bs.

NO ChoP! said:

Well, when I sharpen my edge creates electromagnetic radiation. The photon transfer acts like a laser beam. In a vacuum it becomes invisible to the naked eye, and actually time travels. I am currently cutting tomorrow's prep right now, while typing this bs.

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:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:

Why call it electrocardiogram though? I look at ECG's all day long, and let me tell you that definitely doesn't look like an ECG... Well maybe if someone is dying? :scratch head: Not exactly the message I would want to convey.

I do think visually it looks rather nice. But it's definitely not my taste and I don't like the name. I'm clearly not their target audience haha

ECG= East Coast Gathering!

And on top of that, it is a cladding line, not a hamon. Do they not have even a clue?

I dont see the point of that knife, but why start a thread just to talk smack? Is there a question or something of value to this?

I don't think so. Just having some fun. I think it looks awful

panda said:

I dont see the point of that knife, but why start a thread just to talk smack? Is there a question or something of value to this?

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I haven't started this thread , this was a reply to the n b tama thread and mods must have moved it here


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panda said:

I dont see the point of that knife, but why start a thread just to talk smack? Is there a question or something of value to this?

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Chefcomesback didn't start this thread. He posted in the Nobutima thread originally. I moved it over because there was several comments following which were taking the Nobutima thread off topic.

What's wrong with talking smack though? I mean in this case these knives got nothing else going for them than smack talk. And yes there's value to pointing out how these knives DO NOT have hamons - LOL

Looks like those even wave "Hamons" they put on cheap Samurai swords.I know that the Hamon on my Tamahagane blade is real because I watched the brothers pounding the steel & clay temper.

Are most all hamons even in high end knives either cladding as in the Hiro. AS or in non Honyaki blades a softer clad steel over the core?

I ask because looking at some of Jon's hand forged high end blades there is a visible hamon that could be from clay tempering.How can you tell by looking at pictures what is real hamon?

Maybe that's what they're being advertised, but what you're describing is just the lamination line between the core steel and cladding. Just like in the blades being discussed here, but I don't think you could considered them as a 'hamon'. A hamon signifies the changes in grain structure on a blade that has been differentially heat treated (martensitic [hard] to pearlitic [soft]) and even the description of these knives say that they're clad. Another thing is that the description says that the blades are a san-mai construction (three layer) even though they actually look asymmetrical, or kata-ha (two layer)...

knyfeknerd said:

ECG= East Coast Gathering!

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Ok snap, I'm down!! No cane this year either!!! Where are we meeting this time??

Quote Originally Posted by knyfeknerd View Post
ECG= East Coast Gathering!

ThEoRy said:

Ok snap, I'm down!! No cane this year either!!! Where are we meeting this time??

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When and where?

There must be experts here that know what is real Hamon & what is not.Honyaki forged blades are clay tempered as I understand it.

Blades like the Gesshin Ittetsu are clad Hon Kasumi.I was wondering about forged blades like Gesshin Heiji & Gesshin Kagekiyo carbons which are not listed as clad knives.These knives have Hamon lines just wondering if they are clay tempered or the line is formed by softer steel over the harder core steel as in many Yanagi's.

Obviously there is alot of hype about Hamons which are not Hamons at all but decoration.A blade does not have to be Honyaki to be clay tempered does it?Are not some high end blades made with real Hamons?

As far as I know "Hamon" is the fuzzy line that appears after polishing a differentially tempered single steel blade. I have no clue if the cladding line between softer steel and the core is also called Hamon... but I guess it is not after Dave's Martell assertion "these knives DO NOT have hamons - LOL"

The line between cladding and core material is not called a hamon - it's a lamination line between two different materials. Only a knife made from one steel throughout, but differentially heat-treated, will have a "true" hamon.

Honyaki knives have hamon. Clad knives have lamination lines. Monosteel knives have neither.

keithsaltydog said:

There must be experts here that know what is real Hamon & what is not.Honyaki forged blades are clay tempered as I understand it.

Blades like the Gesshin Ittetsu are clad Hon Kasumi.I was wondering about forged blades like Gesshin Heiji & Gesshin Kagekiyo carbons which are not listed as clad knives.These knives have Hamon lines just wondering if they are clay tempered or the line is formed by softer steel over the harder core steel as in many Yanagi's.

Obviously there is alot of hype about Hamons which are not Hamons at all but decoration.A blade does not have to be Honyaki to be clay tempered does it?Are not some high end blades made with real Hamons?

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those knives do not have hamon

echerub said:

The line between cladding and core material is not called a hamon - it's a lamination line between two different materials. Only a knife made from one steel throughout, but differentially heat-treated, will have a "true" hamon.

Honyaki knives have hamon. Clad knives have lamination lines. Monosteel knives have neither.

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Thanks that's how I understand it.So a vast majority of even fine forged Japanese knives are lamination lines.Some of these blades have wild type hamons that look quite nice I wonder how they do it.I don't even know how the Hiromoto's are made since the irregular lamination lines are different on each gyuto as seen clearly with Dave's spa treatments.

echerub said:

The line between cladding and core material is not called a hamon - it's a lamination line between two different materials. Only a knife made from one steel throughout, but differentially heat-treated, will have a "true" hamon.

Honyaki knives have hamon. Clad knives have lamination lines. Monosteel knives have neither.

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Honyaki are monosteel.

Midwinter said:

Honyaki are monosteel.

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Yes but diff. process.Many mono steel gyuto's are cut from a sheet & the whole blanks including tang are heat treated.Honyaki are hand forged mono steel with clay tempering so the cutting edge is harder then the rest of the blade.

The crazy patterns that can be seen on some laminated knives is caused by carbon Migration between the different materials, and when etched it reveals a cloudy appearance above the lamination line ( or so I believe)
Here is on of the better examples [/URL][/IMG]

Honyaki's need to be hand forge I guess since the clay tempering would affect the shape of the knife when it is quenched. It's the reason why katanas have that curve after it is quenched. Whereas "monosteel" aren't clay tempered so the grain structure is the same through out the blade and therefore no hamon and the shape would not be affected by the quenching process so there's no need for hand forging.

I made the comment just to clarify the the terminologies to prevent confusion. Are we differing monosteel from homogenous? Conventions aside, lets not try to too narrowly define terms that exist outside of the kitchen knife context as well as within it. Hamon is outcome of a specific process done to steel with certain properties.
It wouldn't serve much purpose but you can achieve hamon on a laminated blade as well as a weld line.

Clay is one of many insulating materials that may be used. They are rare but hamon-free honyaki knives do exist.

As far as I've seen there are no laws governing and defining that aspect of a honyaki blade (swords are another matter entirely).

The knives in question do not possess a hamon by any stretch.

"Cut" is a broad term, drop forging is technically forging as opposed to stamping.

I rarely post and am not out to cause grief; it behooves us all to keep information accurate. Make a new term if you must or preamble inaccurate definitive statements with "generally" so as not to propagate misinformation.

In kitchen knives (which is the only type of knife I have seen the term honyaki used often), there are a number of Japanese manufacturers which use the term honyaki for both blades with hamon as well as monosteel unlaminated blades without hamon. Mizu honyaki is a more specific term meaning water quenched, those blades often have a hamon, usually a simple quench line, nothing as exotic as what you see on custom knives or antique swords.