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Thread: Need workhorse gyuto 240mm

  1. #1
    Senior Member Matus's Avatar
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    Need workhorse gyuto 240mm

    OK, I am not sure this level of detail is really necessary right now, but let's do this according to the book:

    LOCATION
    - Germany

    KNIFE TYPE
    - Gyuto

    Are you right or left handed?
    - right handed

    Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
    - both but would prefer western if not too heavy.

    What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
    - 240mm

    Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
    - yes - I would prefer stainless cladding on whatever core. I somehow fear pure carbon knife for this purpose

    What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
    $300 (300€), optimally around $200 (200€). I may consider paying more for a knife from one of "our" makers (DT, Marko, etc.).

    KNIFE USE
    Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
    - home

    What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for:
    - chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats

    What knife, if any, are you replacing?
    - Tanaka R2 210mm damascus with wa handle. Reason: want longer and more workhorese blade. The Tanaka is a laser (130g !)

    Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?
    - hammer and pinch

    What cutting motions do you primarily use?
    - slice, push-cut, rock

    What improvements do you want from your current knife?
    - slightly heavier (say up to around 200g)
    - good food release
    - other: there is not much to improve on edge retention of the Tanaka

    KNIFE MAINTENANCE
    Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
    - yes, wood - end grain only

    Do you sharpen your own knives?
    - yes, water stones

    SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

    I am looking to replace the Tanaka 210 R2 with a simpler (cheaper?) knife with a bit more robust blade - a 240mm workhorse. I seem to have a soft spot for kiritsuke shaped gyuto - I like the looks and tend to think that the tip may be easier to use, but that is not based on direct experience.

    To give you an idea on my preferences let me mention a few candidates that I am considering (I am not really sure which of these could be described as 'workhorse'). This list is definitely NOT exclusive and not necessarily within the price range in NEW condition!
    - Itinomon SS clad
    - Yoshikane SKD hammered finish
    - Suisin INOX Honyaki
    - Asai Hayabusa (SS clad AS)
    - Devin Thomas AEB-L ITK
    - Fowler
    - Gesshin Kagero
    - Kochi Ku SS clad carbon
    - Gengetsu SS clad white#2 or semi-stainless core
    - Gesshin Heji semi-stainless
    - Rader (I guess for $300 I could only get a handle without the blade)

    I am interested in both NEW or USED knife. I may consider a trade later (just a heads up - please do not start to make me offers via this thread - this would be the wrong place)


  2. #2
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    I'll limit my comments to the knives on your candidate list that I have owned.

    - Itinomon SS clad

    The western handled version of this knife is, indeed, a "workhorse". It weighs 278 g, so it is heavier than your target weight, but the balance is such that it doesn't feel like a heavy knife. Good profile, similar to a Shigefusa.

    - Yoshikane SKD hammered finish

    Another "workhorse", but lighter than the Itinomonn. Maksim carried a plain (not hammered) version, which you may be able to find used. Very good knife, in either finish.

    - Suisin INOX Honyaki

    This is a "laser", not a "workhorse".

    - Devin Thomas AEB-L ITK

    Devin's blades tend toward the "laser" side, at least the early ITK series does. The early ones were very close to the Tadatsuna Inox blades. His current knives are a bit beefier at the heel, but still can't be categorized as a "workhorse".

    - Fowler

    Stephen's knives can go either way. I've had both a "laser" and a "workhorse" knife from him. To the best of my knowledge, though, he makes only full carbon blades.

    - Gesshin Kagero

    The Kagero leans more toward "laser" than "workhorse". Great PM steel in the core.

    - Kochi Ku SS clad carbon

    The wide bevel on the Kochi gives good food release. At 201 g it is in your target range for weight. Wa-handled, not western. My recommendation for you, but Jon has to get some back in stock.

    - Gesshin Heji semi-stainless

    Definitely a "workhorse". They are very noticeably "nose-heavy", which takes a bit of getting used to. Excellent food release, but mine had a tendency to wedge.

    - Rader (I guess for $300 I could only get a handle without the blade)

    Or maybe a framed photo of one?

    Rick

    The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

  3. #3
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    I thought DT's earlier ITKs were on the beefy side. Devin himself said some time ago that every new batch is thinner than the last...I also ordered an early model ITK and am having Devin thin and refinish it. He said he doesn't (or can't) get AEB-L stock anymore in the thickness of his early ones.

  4. #4
    Senior Member labor of love's Avatar
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    Id steer clear of dt itks. Maybe consider hiromoto?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Namaxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pensacola Tiger View Post
    I'll limit my comments to the knives on your candidate list that I have owned.

    - Itinomon SS clad

    The western handled version of this knife is, indeed, a "workhorse". It weighs 278 g, so it is heavier than your target weight, but the balance is such that it doesn't feel like a heavy knife. Good profile, similar to a Shigefusa.

    - Yoshikane SKD hammered finish

    Another "workhorse", but lighter than the Itinomonn. Maksim carried a plain (not hammered) version, which you may be able to find used. Very good knife, in either finish.

    - Suisin INOX Honyaki

    This is a "laser", not a "workhorse".

    - Devin Thomas AEB-L ITK

    Devin's blades tend toward the "laser" side, at least the early ITK series does. The early ones were very close to the Tadatsuna Inox blades. His current knives are a bit beefier at the heel, but still can't be categorized as a "workhorse".

    - Fowler

    Stephen's knives can go either way. I've had both a "laser" and a "workhorse" knife from him. To the best of my knowledge, though, he makes only full carbon blades.

    - Gesshin Kagero

    The Kagero leans more toward "laser" than "workhorse". Great PM steel in the core.

    - Kochi Ku SS clad carbon

    The wide bevel on the Kochi gives good food release. At 201 g it is in your target range for weight. Wa-handled, not western. My recommendation for you, but Jon has to get some back in stock.

    - Gesshin Heji semi-stainless

    Definitely a "workhorse". They are very noticeably "nose-heavy", which takes a bit of getting used to. Excellent food release, but mine had a tendency to wedge.

    - Rader (I guess for $300 I could only get a handle without the blade)

    Or maybe a framed photo of one?

    Rick
    Agree with Rick's assessment. FWIW, here is a link to when I had the Heiji, compared to my Gengetsu.

    http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/sh...ht=#post165469

    You can't go wrong with the Gengetsu; along with the Kato it's one of my all time favorites. I use mine all the time.

  6. #6
    Senior Member labor of love's Avatar
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    Gengetsus have been out of stock for a while now.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Matus's Avatar
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    Thank you for all the information, it is very helpful.

    One point concerning the "target weight" of 200g. It is just an estimation of what would probably not feel too heavy. I only have the Tanaka gyuto to compare to which wights 130g and feels feather light in hand. I do appreciate the lightness, but I do realize that 'workhorse' and 'lightweight' exclude each other up to large extend. I have hard time to guess how much weight would be too much. I may try to attach some weight to my Tanaka and test it.

    What I could maybe add that the knife should not feel too 'front heavy'. In this category I would guess that knife with western handle would be an advantage as the there is more weight in the handle.

    I do not want to start an argument, but why should I avoid DT ITK? Because of the geometry?

    P.S. Any offers on framed photo of a Rader gyuto?

  8. #8
    Senior Member labor of love's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matus View Post
    Thank you for all the information, it is very helpful.



    I do not want to start an argument, but why should I avoid DT ITK? Because of the geometry?
    The new ones arent really work horses. And theyre hard to find anyway. I like the itinomonn suggestion though.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Matus's Avatar
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    Itinomonn is indeed high on the list, I am jsut not sure whether blade width (height) of 58mm not too much is and whether it does not make harder to use the tip.

  10. #10
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    One should never ever avoid a DT ITK !!! Just saying...


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