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  1. #11
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    SpikeC's Avatar
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    I agree with Marko, not having a link to a site does not stop someone from going there, and references in posts aren't censored as far as I can tell.
    Spike C
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  2. #12

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    I only posted revised copypasta here from the other thread, but I get the idea now that Dave only wants to keep from having links to cktg? Not to quell discussion of it? I know posting links on other webpages is good for their search engine data, and posting links to CKTG here would be, effectively, free promotional advertising to the general public.

    My feelings on this issue may be coming off that I am a CKTG fanboy, but I am just not on the "for side" in this issue. Heck, I don't shop at Wal-Mart, Target, Home Depot, Sears, 7-11, Quik-Trip, the list goes on. I don't buy store brand products(unless I am a complete broke ass and feeding my kids. When I was single I'd rather starve). I certainly get the concern. I love that Mark has a focus of just giving customers what they want, but I do also understand how that can go wrong for the people, by dominating so highly you suffocate every market. I am planning and forming my own business, and I appreciate business success, but I think there needs to be a "stop-point" for growth.

    Is there some way to keep from editing it out of the posts themselves, like some kind of Voldemort scheme? My official suggestion is that if you have a way to prevent links to large super-retailers, then do it, and post a sticky with a list of the sites considered "too big".

  3. #13
    Marko Tsourkan's Avatar
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    Comes to mind how in the past news spread about JWW having Shigefusa for sale. There would be a post like "JWW has one 240mm Kitaeji Gyuto for Sale. Call Jennie" and then next minute, you are on the phone calling. So, why can't, say, Devin, Michael or Pierre post something in their sub forum saying that their knives are available at CKTG? I honestly see no reason why they wouldn't. I would would, if I were in their shoes.

    Why do you guys have to have a link to a product? There is a Search Box in almost every site, so just type in what you are looking for and it will take you to the product.

    M


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  4. #14
    Senior Member UglyJoe's Avatar
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    JD, I don't think the issue is so much that Mark's store is too big, but that he sells himself as an expert in knives when he simply isn't, and that that can lead to major problems for customers and others. For instance, there have been several threads about Moritaka grind issues that have cropped up the past few weeks. On the other forum, when these issues were coming to light, Mark basically told everyone to buy from him and he would check every knife he sold to make sure you got a "good one". Nevertheless, many of those "checked" knives had the grind issues, inexperienced users bought and used them from CKtG, and then after a few sharpenings or a trip to Dave's they realized they had dud knives. Furthermore there has been issues in the past where others who have spent a lot of time, money, and effort selecting sharpening equipment, particularly stones, and once the stones were established as stones that customers wanted by those who had tested them and suggested them, Mark kind of swooped in and undercut the other vendors by just a few dollars, making their effort and work wasted. And then there are things like natural stones, where Mark is clearly not an expert at all, doesn't test the stones to the extent that say Maxim does, but sells lots of them to people who really don't know what they need in a natural, etc.

    The idea behind these forums and the vendors that Dave wants to promote is that they really know what they are talking about and have a passion for knives first and running a business to make money second. In general, vendors like that are going to cost more - they put more attention to detail with every customer transaction, and are willing to talk customers through to knives, etc. that they don't even sell. I've experienced this a few times with vendors here myself. Because of the additional costs associated with running a business this way, these types of vendors are the ones who are most hurt by CKtG, because their items typically sell for 5-10% more, and that's generally enough to push many buyers to the lower priced item, regardless of service. As such CKtG is kind of in direct opposition to what Dave is trying to foster here, and ergo I have no problem with Dave not wanted that site linked to from here.

  5. #15
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    mr drinky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Martell View Post
    Mark at CKTG sells a copy of that one.

    You can also make one yourself. A simple broomstick handle with a notch cut in it works wonders. Careful with tips though - snappy stuff.
    This was a quote from an earlier post where Dave even mentions CKTG about a knife straightener. I'll give Dave the benefit of the doubt here as I think there are some delicate issues that make this a difficult decision.

    With that said, the lack of Mark's Shop being mentioned here has driven me to his facebook page/commercial site more often and I also check knifeforums just to peek at what is going on over there (as I am sure he checks this site out). A lot of actions have unintended consequences.

    k.
    "In Japan they don't call it Japanese food, they just call it food." -- Children's Hospital Quote

  6. #16

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    The reason I am saying that it isn't a solution is because there is no way to tell people who aren't in the existing in-crowd what the hell "cktg" means. It was the most annoying part of learning about knives(or anything) on forums. People saying "If you want a ffg 240 j-blade in vg-10, get a DP from cktg and send it to jks." You can't Google these things, and by requiring we use some indescribable acronym easily crosses the line from convenient to elitist. A sticky explaining what CKTG, HA, and whatever else makes the prohibition list and why you can't speak their names would solve this.

    I have been on these forums for years now, but I still remember that it took me about 4 months of daily reading before I knew what the posts were even talking about--almost exclusively because of acronyms.

  7. #17
    Marko Tsourkan's Avatar
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    Drinky,
    I haven't forgotten about the sticks, just didn't get to it yet. I will be straightening some uyamago tamgsvery soon, so out of two I mke, one is for you.

    M
    PS:I haven't forgotten the outline of the suji either. Just thins are a little slower in my land.


    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made, in a narrow field.
    -Niels Bohr

    If my KKF Inbox is full (or not), please contact me via Email: anvlts@gmail.com

  8. #18
    Senior Member UglyJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johndoughy View Post
    The reason I am saying that it isn't a solution is because there is no way to tell people who aren't in the existing in-crowd what the hell "cktg" means. It was the most annoying part of learning about knives(or anything) on forums. People saying "If you want a ffg 240 j-blade in vg-10, get a DP from cktg and send it to jks." You can't Google these things, and by requiring we use some indescribable acronym easily crosses the line from convenient to elitist. A sticky explaining what CKTG, HA, and whatever else makes the prohibition list and why you can't speak their names would solve this.

    I have been on these forums for years now, but I still remember that it took me about 4 months of daily reading before I knew what the posts were even talking about--almost exclusively because of acronyms.
    I understand this, but at the same time, that's kind of the point. Forcing people to take the time to learn what these things stand for makes them educate themselves to some degree. I think as a community we would rather new posters take the time to learn about knives and make an informed decision than to have someone say "Go buy a Tojiro from www.**************.com, it's cheap and you can learn on it". Someone who just wants to buy a set of knives as a wedding gift are going to buy from the big boys (SLT, WS, CAM, etc.) or they're going to do a minimum of searching and find CKTG easily enough. Heck, I found CKTG before I ever even heard of knife forums of any kind.

  9. #19
    Senior Member goodchef1's Avatar
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    censorship for personal reasons on any forum I believe damages credibility. wasn't this type of actions on the other forum the reason this was created? I highly doubt that Mark's passion for money more then the goods he sells is the reason his links are blocked.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marko Tsourkan View Post
    Drinky,
    I haven't forgotten about the sticks, just didn't get to it yet. I will be straightening some uyamago tamgsvery soon, so out of two I mke, one is for you.

    M
    PS:I haven't forgotten the outline of the suji either. Just thins are a little slower in my land.
    No problem, man. I don't want my things getting in the way of your new WIP knife porn

    k.
    "In Japan they don't call it Japanese food, they just call it food." -- Children's Hospital Quote

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