Repost from wrong sub forum.. First 3 In and analized !. Masmoto, Gesshin, Hiromoto

Ok here we go.. Three came in.. Hiromoto, masamoto and Gesshin

Hiromoto:
Very comfortable handle..medium size
Overall weight feels medium/light and the balance is toward the handle
very even symmetric blade profile
Choil feel is on the harsh side with little comfort and the butt of the blade angles toward you so you can knick yourself.
Blade to bolster transition quality is lacking. visible marks which look like weld marks.

Masamoto:

Larger handle than Hiromoto that has a much better feel, if you like large handles or have larger hands this handle is spectacular(I don't have large hands)
Overall weight is heavy but has Absolutely perfect balance.
Much more comfortable choil and back of blade is 90 degrees to handle.
Significantly better Fit/finish then Hiro.. however, the tang does have a large knick at butt of handle
Blade profile is flatter from mid blade to tip

Gesshin Kagero.

A straight up work of art.. I said wow when I opened the awesome padded case.
Overall weight feels medium..but balance is much more toward the blade.
by far the smallest handle which is thicker at the bolster and tapers to the back.. A nice touch actually
By far..like not even remotely close.. the most comfortable choil area. Double the space and its rounded. blade butt angles toward you , but the clearance is perfect.
easily the best fit/finish
by far the flattest profile, and least overall blade height.
seems the sharpest on the finger test.

Conclusions.

The hiro has a great handle.. but is completely outclassed in every other respect. it will be going back.

The Masamoto easily has the best balance. it has an unbelievably comfortable handle, even for small hands like myself. If you have large hands, this should be in your top 2 choices. It is easily the heaviest knife. If you like a heavy perfectly balanced knife.. This is it.
fit and finish are top notch. ( Im assuming the knick is a fluke)

The gesshin is hands down the best overall fit/finish and best looking. it has a small handle, but the comfort of the choil area is so far and away superior to the others, that alone compensates for lack of handle comfort. if you like a flatter profile and blade height.. this has it.
It is not as balanced as the masamoto.. if you like to feel the blade weight though, then the gesshin is it.

I have 2 more coming, but if I were to pick now.. it would be an easy win for the gesshin with 50% of that reason being the spectacular feel in the handle to choil transition.

I had taken pics but it seems I can post attachments due to forum rules.. bummer

more to follow !!

Update,

I brought the knives home to wife and adult daughter. They both immediately dismissed the Hiro. Daughter ultimately liked the Masa, due to the heavier feel. She has only ever owned german knives( currently Gunter Wilhelm which are tanks)

The wife was floored by the kagero. She agreed as well that the choil area was world class comfort, and she much preferred the lower blade profile. She also noted that it was just a flat out beautiful knife.

So unless the Sakai and or the Tojiro Dp are otherworldly, we will be proud owners of the Kagero !

Just stick with the Kagero man. This all just seems like a waste of money on return shipping, insurance and restocking fees... :2cents:

ThEoRy said:

Just stick with the Kagero man. This all just seems like a waste of money on return shipping, insurance and restocking fees... :2cents:

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small change on shipping, no insurance or restock concerns. A waste of money( and time) would be to get a knife sight and feel unseen and use it and find out I don't like it and sell it for a loss and start over.

In the grand scheme ifs I spend 20 or so bucks to return 4 knives... when ill spend 4-5 hundred eventually on the knives I love is no biggie

"analized", lol.

Not even remotely surprised that the Kagero won this little shootout. The Grand Cheff and Tojiro DP will be nowhere near either.

Timthebeaver said:

Not even remotely surprised that the Kagero won this little shootout. The Grand Cheff and Tojiro DP will be nowhere near either.

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+1

Jon is the F&F king.

Timthebeaver said:

"analized", lol.

Not even remotely surprised that the Kagero won this little shootout. The Grand Cheff and Tojiro DP will be nowhere near either.

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rapid typing.. "analyzed" easy tiger...

fergie said:

small change on shipping, no insurance or restock concerns.

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No insurance? You may want to verify that with the vendors that you're buying from.

And, based on my own personal experience, you should buy insurance. Otherwise, you may spend over $100+ just to hold a knife.

Is it surprising that the most expensive knife by at least fifty dollars has the best fit and finish? I'm sure it's the best performer with ingredients as well. Again , should this be surprising? Just seems like if you were willing to make the investment for the next tier knife there was very little chance that it wasn't going to be most pleasing to you.

But hey, you get to have multiple knives in hand as you start into this inquiry, which can't hurt. More knowledge the better I suppose.

Which Kagero?

lucabrasi said:

Is it surprising that the most expensive knife by at least fifty dollars has the best fit and finish? I'm sure it's the best performer with ingredients as well. Again , should this be surprising? Just seems like if you were willing to make the investment for the next tier knife there was very little chance that it wasn't going to be most pleasing to you.

But hey, you get to have multiple knives in hand as you start into this inquiry, which can't hurt. More knowledge the better I suppose.

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aside from the sale on the Masa.. the across the board price on the masa is 200.. Kagero was 230. I did not think there would be such a significant difference no. I could understand the disparage between the others that are in the 150 range. But this is my first time ever looking at, feeling , experiencing a knife of this type at any price range. A higher price does not always equate to a better product.
That's why I got a pretty solid cross section, I wanted to see for myself. BTW.. if the choil on the Masa was nearly as good as the gesshin, it would almost be a tossup. The balance of the Masa is unreal.

CoqaVin said:

Which Kagero?

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http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...esshin-kagero-240mm-powdered-steel-gyuto.html

all they have is 2... 210/240

Well it sounds like you've gotten some good experience and are happy with the process and what it sounds like you'll keep. The others are right, no way either of the two you have coming will factor in if the price of the Kagero is ok. Enjoy.

lucabrasi said:

Well it sounds like you've gotten some good experience and are happy with the process and what it sounds like you'll keep. The others are right, no way either of the two you have coming will factor in if the price of the Kagero is ok. Enjoy.

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oh yes price is OK.. so im believing ill be keeping it ..curious how the other 2 stackup with the Hiro and Masa however.

I have a solid expectation ill be ordering the Kagero petty as well

That you love the FF of the Kagero tells me the last two yet to come have no chance. Cancel the orders. Plus, now you can explain to Jon what you like!

fergie said:

Update,

I brought the knives home to wife and adult daughter. They both immediately dismissed the Hiro. Daughter ultimately liked the Masa, due to the heavier feel. She has only ever owned german knives( currently Gunter Wilhelm which are tanks)

The wife was floored by the kagero. She agreed as well that the choil area was world class comfort, and she much preferred the lower blade profile. She also noted that it was just a flat out beautiful knife.

So unless the Sakai and or the Tojiro Dp are otherworldly, we will be proud owners of the Kagero !

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If you liked the Kagero, did you look at the Ginga?

How smooth the choil has nothing to do with how it cuts, it appears you're not concerned with that aspect.

quite frankly, unless you sharpen and use these knives for a period of time, you'll never get to know them properly. it's kinda like looking at a girl and dismissing her entirely because her friend looked hotter at the time. of the 3 knives you picked, i'm sure the kagero is undoubtedly the "best" knife as it will likely be the best finished and also have the best edge retention but it is probably also the hardest to sharpen.

panda said:

How smooth the choil has nothing to do with how it cuts, it appears you're not concerned with that aspect.

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All of these knives will cut well..and a comfortable knife that feels right, feels balanced and feels like it belongs in your hand is what this is about. So the feel of the choil and how it fits with my grip and my style, is of huge importance. The Hiro for instance had a harsh transition, and uncomfortable feel. So it could cut like a laser, but who cares if I don't want to use it since its not pleasant to hold onto...

kpnv said:

quite frankly, unless you sharpen and use these knives for a period of time, you'll never get to know them properly. it's kinda like looking at a girl and dismissing her entirely because her friend looked hotter at the time. of the 3 knives you picked, i'm sure the kagero is undoubtedly the "best" knife as it will likely be the best finished and also have the best edge retention but it is probably also the hardest to sharpen.

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totally agree.. but there has to be a starting point. So holding the knife, feeling the balance, feeling the handle, feeling the weight, and getting an overall sense is all I can do PRE using. With the aforementioned things resolved, I can then go with that knife and use it, and go from there. SO far its all been resolved with the kagero, now ill use it.

fergie said:

if the choil on the Masa was nearly as good as the gesshin, it would almost be a tossup. The balance of the Masa is unreal.

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You can have the coil rounded by the pros on this forum if you need. You could send it to Dave Martell for ex. but I'm not sure how much that would cost.

Did you say that you would also be looking at the Ginga? I'm curious how the Ginga rates against the Kagero in finish, balance, and comfort.

I for one like your selection process, all the negative comments just make me shake my head. You summed it up well, all the knives will cut well. In the end it's a personal preference and being comfortable with how it looks and feels in your hand is a valid selection criteria.

My comments are meant as advice, and at the worst constructive criticism. Its the OPs cash hes spending so ultimately he can do whatever he likes. But he did begin several threads at this forum looking for feedback in his decision making and thats exactly what he got smh.