Looking for 3 Knives

hello guys,
I know these are common questions,so if there is a similar thread for my questions,then post a link.

LOCATION
What country are you in?
Germany


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
As for know I search for these knifes:
-Gyuto or Santoku
-Petty or Paring
-Deba or Cleaver (I want to cut through Bones too)


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home


What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Mostly for Slicing and chopping vegetables,also alot of hard vegetables like sweet potatos and squashes.regularly for cutting meat and fish.


What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Dont have any good knives yet


What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
I want a sharp knife,easy to handle,not too heavy,easy to sharpen,good edge retention


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
yes


Do you sharpen your own knives?
not yet


If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives?
yes


Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives?
yes


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
I did a little bit research on various knives already.
As for now,I tend to buy JCK Carbonext (1xgyuto or santoku and 1x petty) but I would like to hear your opinion and if there are better knives for that price.
My budget is ~130$ for a gyuto or santoku, ~70$ for a petty or paring.I didnt spent any time to search for a deba or cleaver yet,but I hope there are some good ones for ~100$ or below.
I'm willing to spend a little bit more for each knife,if there is a good knife,thats only few $ more expensive.
If you think I should buy different knives,please let me know

Thanks in advance

Such mal nach Tojiro auf amazon.de - gestern habe ich dort ein 21cm DP gyuto for 48€ gesehen, die 24cm DPs gibt's schon für ca 65€. Im regulären Laden in D kosten die 24cm um die 125€!!! Sind prima Messer.

Not so sure whether a Tojiro with VG-10 core is the best way to start learning sharpening.

thanks mhpr,but at this point I lean towards a carbon steel knife,except there is a stainless steel,that is easy to sharpen.

Ich antworte auf englisch,sodass alle mitlesen können

Your choice of getting Carbonext is pretty good imho. You can also check Fujiwara FKM from same vendor. They are sharpened just as easy as carbonext, also they are stainless and come with better factory edges. I had both in the form of 150mm petty knives… couldn't really tell the difference in real life usage. Maybe gyutos are different, but petty knives are more or less the same.

You can also buy a Tanaka petty from ebay which is within your budget and is much better knife then either Carbonext of Fujiwara FKM petties in terms of profile and geometry.

If the OP hasn't started yet to sharpen himself, the Carbonext isn't perhaps the best choice, if I look at all the diverging reports about its OOTB edge. Fujiwara FKH, Misono Swedish Carbon and Hiromoto Aogami Super would all be great. Get a decent size, you won't regret. I wouldn't pay too much for a petty but buy locally a Victorinox or a basic Robert Herder. And get two stones with knivesandtools.de

thanks
from all mentioned knives the Hiromoto Aogami Super would be another option.

the OOtB edge for the CN isnt too important,since I can let it sharpen the first time.for me the performance is more important.also I want the edge to be easy to sharpen (easy for beginners).

I know I can get a cheaper german petty,but I want at least in the beginning some similarity in the look of the knives,since I'll put them on a magnet knife holder. (hope that makes sense )

My first knife is CN and I got it sharp-ish without much effort and caused just a few cosmetic defects.

Welcome to the forum!

Since you are located in Germany, have a look at the offerings from: http://gx2.japan-messer-shop.de

There is also a guy selling Zakuri knives in Germany: http://www.tosa-hocho.de that should fit your price range and should be very good.

If you were willing to spend a little more than Itinomonn knives from Maksim @ JNS (http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com) have gained a lot of respect.

Here in UK you can find Masakage Mizu: http://thechoppingblockco.co.uk/collections/masakage-mizu
I have Masakage Koishi (ko-bunka) and like it very much. Mizu should be their simple line, but the steel should be great.

Another option could be picking something from the B/S/T section (although most offerings are from outside EU what ruins any price advantage because of shipping and taxes).

Do not forget to keep some budget for some sharpening stones. For the best in EU go with Maksim from JNS, but the combination 1000/6000 King stone (the large one) or the 1000/6000 Bester e.g. from https://www.fine-tools.com will do the job too.

thank you for your post,but nonhe of the recommended knives match my criteria.I do like to western handle more than the japanese ones.Itinomonn knives would be great of course,but they are way over my budget.
from the reviews and the looks,the hiromoto and the CN knives seem to be great for the price.

I do have an extra budget for Sharpening tools.I intend to spend ~70 Euros for 2 combi stones and for leather.Its for most of you probably not much,but it will do the job.
I'm not an advanced cook and most of the time I will cook only for myself.having some nice looking and performing knives and keeping them sharp with little effort will be more than enough.


Any thoughts on Deba knives or cleavers?
I'm not entirely sure,if I really need a deba or if the other knives will do the job,but I buy often a whole fish (without organs) or whole chicken,since its cheaper and I think a deba could help me tremendously

domgro said:

Any thoughts on Deba knives or cleavers?
I'm not entirely sure,if I really need a deba or if the other knives will do the job,but I buy often a whole fish (without organs) or whole chicken,since its cheaper and I think a deba could help me tremendously

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A deba is a great tool for breaking down a whole fish, as long as you respect the fact that its edge is fragile and should not be used to go through bones. It can be used to break down a chicken but a petty and a pair of kitchen shears does the same job and is a bit easier.

If you are looking to use something for bones, get a heavy duty meat cleaver that's made for bones, not a deba.

hmm,ok.I'll wait then and decide in a few weeks if I'll buy a cleaver or so

I have one more question regarding the Hiromoto AS.
I have read a couple times about Blade thinning.Do you have to thin the blade or something like that or is it just optional to improve cutting performance?

A deba is not for cutting through bones. It is for filleting fish with occasional bone contact. What bones are you cutting through?

maybe I have mistaken it with a western deba?
I would mainly use it for chicken and fish and maybe some meaty bone (not for cutting through the bones) from pork or beef

domgro said:

I have one more question regarding the Hiromoto AS.
I have read a couple times about Blade thinning.Do you have to thin the blade or something like that or is it just optional to improve cutting performance?

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The Hiromoto used to come a bit fat out of the box; as far as I can see, the grinding has recently considerably improved. Anyway, you get a great performer for your money. A spa treatment as proposed by Dave Martell though will certainly take performance to an even higher level. There is no pressing need to do so, but it is no bad idea to have a new blade sharpened and thinned by a serious professional, especially if you happen to be a novice on sharpening.

thanks benuser

after further research I read a couple times,that the hiromoto (and probably many other *** knives) might have problems (chipping) with harder vegetables like squashes and sweet potatos.
what knife type would you suggest for that kind of work?aside from cutting through bones,would a (western) deba suit?
I definately would like to have a knife for the rougher work (still for fish and meat,but without cutting through bones) I can use also for "difficult" veggies

domgro said:

thanks benuser

after further research I read a couple times,that the hiromoto (and probably many other *** knives) might have problems (chipping) with harder vegetables like squashes and sweet potatos.
what knife type would you suggest for that kind of work?aside from cutting through bones,would a (western) deba suit?
I definately would like to have a knife for the rougher work (still for fish and meat,but without cutting through bones) I can use also for "difficult" veggies

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A western deba sure looks nice and beastly, very tempting for myself as well. It should do well for chicken (as Theory has shown) and harder, larger veggies. Not sure how well it would do for fish, however. If you have any large german chef knives, you can always use those as beaters and switch after instead of buying a big and heavy knife? I think it depends on how often you break down fish vs fowl.

Have no experience with squashes, with sweet potatoes: chipping seems me very unlikely, unless gross abuse. Sweet potatoes are to be cut with any good gyuto and a diligent hand. Going for a thicker blade as a western deba won't make it easier. A thicker blade will encounter more resistance, require more force, risk of wedging, finally resulting in a harder board contact.
More specific about the Hiromoto: is kept relatively soft for Aogami Super, Rc 62. not overly thin, not specially chippy. Even a lot of softer blades tend to chip easier than this one.
Of course you can't abuse a hard and thin Japanese edge in the same way as some do with a soft thick European one. I would suggest to abandon rock-chopping and walking. But that is far from specific to the Hiromoto.

If you have any large german chef knives, you can always use those as beaters and switch after instead of buying a big and heavy knife? I think it depends on how often you break down fish vs fowl.

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I dont have any knives yet,bc I'm moving out.
so I would have to buy a big knife anyway.

I would say I'll break down a whole fish more often.

I'll search for a good German chef knife.
If you have any suggestions,let me know (budget max. 100 euro)

thank you benuser for your opinion.

Tojiro Western Deba seems to be a popular choice for rough jobs like that. Thinking of getting one myself.

With the OP's budget I would get the Hiromoto 270mm gyuto and apply a microbevel on the first 3" from the heel. No need for a special blade for heavier tasks. The trick I use when I want to take just one knife with me.

I found the best knife for large sweet potatoes etc is the thin geometry of the cck 1303, as opposed to a thicker heavy duty knife....

If a thick blade has a good distal taper AND one uses a decent technique, there's no problem at all. BDL about "guillotine and glide".

http://www.cookfoodgood.com/?p=405

I decided to buy the Hiromoto 210mm gyuto and the 150mm petty.
after trying them I will decide what I'll do next.

thank you everybody :doublethumbsup: