Another first knife/set question. FKM, VG-1 or Eden Kanso

Firstly, hello all. Nice to speak to you, all the way from Liverpool, England.

I'm interested in getting either two or three new Japanese knives. I'm currently torn between a few choices. I definitely want a gyuto probably about 210 length but then i'm struggling to decide whether i want a parer or could a small petty do the job and be a bit more versatile?

I've been looking on JCK and trying to make a decision but the amount of choices just makes my head dizzy. My budget is about £125, can stretch a little more if i get a significantly better deal mind.

Thinking either FKM
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FKMSeries.html#FKM

KAGAYAKI Basic VG-1
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKI.html#KAGAYAKIBASIC

or i've just seen these Eden Kanso knives in a nice little set.
http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/pt/-eden-kanso-aogami-3-piece-knife-set.htm

Does anybody have any experience with the Edens?

I appreciate and help you could give, i'm sure you all get fed up of these which knife threads now but it would be a great help.

Thanks.

it would help if you fill out the the new knife form..

i am not an expert, but first thing that pops up is that you need to decide if you want a carbon or a stainless blade.
i never heard of the Eden brand before, so i can not comment on it, but from the link you provided it looks like it is blue #2, which is high carbon non-stainless.
meaning it will require some extra attention (can not be left wet on the board)...
the other 2 are stainless.

also bare in mind that its best to leave a few bucks aside (or GBP in your case) for a decent sharpening stone, unless you already own one.

Should have filled this in earlier, my apologies.


LOCATION
United Kingdom



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Need a chefs knife, but debating whether to get a small petty to use half as a petty, half as a parer, or get a paring knife instead.

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Don't mind either way, like the look of wa but more used to western style

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
Probably a 210 gyuto, i feel comfortable with that length, maybe stretch to 240. Thought about a 120/125 petty

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Not required but might be a better fit

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
£130-£140


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Both - I'm a pastry chef so the gyuto would primarily be for home use, but a parer would be used professionaly

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)?
Gyuto - chopping veg, slicing meat. Petty - cutting down poultry, slicing veg, trimming meat. Parer - in hand work, peeling veg, prepping fruit etc.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
At home a rubbish Sabatier knife block. In work, a set of overused blunt kitchen knives

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?
Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Gyuto - Rocking, walking. Petty - Draw, slice. Parer - Push

What improvements do you want from your current knife?
Looking for edge retention, would like to be able to sharpen easily, would like a nice looking knife but not a top priority.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Wood or plastic

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes - need new stones, currently just using the ones in work.

What kind of Sabatier are you using at home? some Sabatier brands like ****,K-Sabatier, or Lion Sabatier are considered quite good, perhaps they just need to be re-sharpened.

an other option i would consider in your shoes from JCK would be:
Hiromoto AS - an 8" gyuto would leave you with enough change for a new stone, and if you don't mind the extra attention for the very high carbon core, will out perform any of the other knives you mentioned in terms of edge retention.
and a bonus would be its looks...

i personally am home cook, but for paring i use some brand-less stamped plastic handled fruit knife, that cost me pennies, and it seems to do a good job.
when my child was smaller i used to use it on a daily basis for apples and pears, since it never meets the board and always used on fruit, it almost never needed sharpening.

I don't mind the extra care to look after a carbon knife. Which would you recommend out of a Carbonext or Hiromoto AS?

I've seen a few decent little parers which i might plump for on top of it and just leave a petty and get one if i really see the need for one. Is there a better option of a Gyuto if i go up to $150? Leave me a little room for a king 1000/6000 stone then. Get myself a parer from somewhere else for not very much then.

Can't remember much about the sabatier, don't have the box any more and they just say Professional Sabatier on them with no logos.

out of the 2 (hiro as & carbonext), i personally would go for the hiro AS(i plan on getting one in the near future).
the main and probably only advantage of the carbonext i think is it being semi stainless and easier to maintain.
but if you don't mind the extra attention it will need, then i see no reason to go for a stainless.

but there are other places except JCK, so done limit yourself, i am sure you will get some more good ideas when the guys from north america wake up.

jfletch1305 said:

I don't mind the extra care to look after a carbon knife. Which would you recommend out of a Carbonext or Hiromoto AS?

Click to expand...

Having owned both the CarboNext and Hiromoto AS, I would recommend the CarboNEXT. In my experience the CarboNEXT was a better cutter, and just felt better when using it. The soft stainless cladding of the Hiromoto will show every little scratch, if that is a consideration.

If you decide on the FKM, there is a Wa-handled version sold under the Richmond Artifex moniker on that site we can't mention here. It was honestly a really nice knife, it took a beating and it responds well on the stones. The Edge retention isn't fantastic, but it's not bad and it does get very sharp. The handle was really nice for the price point along with the overall fit and finish, although I've read in the past the FKM range can vary in grinds from knife to knife. I liked mine a ton as my beater, I recently gave it to a friend who was in desperate need of a good chef's knife though. I miss it already haha, although it forces me to use my KS, which I absolutely love but sometimes it's nice to have a cheaper stainless blade I can just use carefree.

I'd like to throw the Tojiro DP into the mix as well. I owned one of those as well. It was my first step into the J-knife arena and that was a really fun knife at the low end as well. It had better edge retention then the FKM steel, but it was a little more chippy and took more effort to get sharp on the stones. It was well balanced and had decent F&F, not as nice as the Artifex Wa though.

Thanks for all of your responses!

I've heard the Carbonext might be a little more difficult to sharpen and not being exactly a pro, in fact very limited amateur, should i take that into consideration? Also is the carbonext likely to be a lot easier to maintain than a hiromoto. This doesn't matter too much, just out of interest is all. I've had a look at the Tojiro DP, was interested but i'm leaning towards the Carbonext to be honest.

I can recommend this 230 mm gyuto. I gave this knife to a girlfriend and every time I use it I am amazed about how great a knife it is. It's good length, takes a nice edge, and it's stainless.

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/ProJSeries.html#ProJ

jfletch1305 said:

Thanks for all of your responses!

I've heard the Carbonext might be a little more difficult to sharpen and not being exactly a pro, in fact very limited amateur, should i take that into consideration? Also is the carbonext likely to be a lot easier to maintain than a hiromoto. This doesn't matter too much, just out of interest is all. I've had a look at the Tojiro DP, was interested but i'm leaning towards the Carbonext to be honest.

Click to expand...

CarboNext is easy to sharpen. Mine(and the majority it seems) just arrive with non existent edge.

Lizzardborn said:

CarboNext is easy to sharpen. Mine(and the majority it seems) just arrive with non existent edge.

Click to expand...

I see. Think i might plump for the CarboNext then. Don't mind having to sharpen it up first thing although that is a little disappointing that its OOTB isn't the best. Thanks for your advice!

jfletch1305 said:

I see. Think i might plump for the CarboNext then. Don't mind having to sharpen it up first thing although that is a little disappointing that its OOTB isn't the best. Thanks for your advice!

Click to expand...

Something I've learned since getting into Japanese blades and especially recently, say the last year... is that even some of the relatively top end knives are disappointing OOTB.

It's often a good idea to take a new knife to a higher grit stone and maybe a stropping after it's first use. I say after it's first use just so you can see what it's like OOTB.

One simple example I can vouch for is my Masamoto KS. OOTB it was still a very sharp knife but at the same time kind of disappointing for it's price point, but once I finally sharpened it, it was just scary sharp, one of the sharpest knives I have ever used.

Really same goes for my Shigefusa nakiri. I bought that one second hand and was sharpened professionally before the owner even used it, but when I got it, it was wedging badly and pretty dull. Just touching it up on a 6000 grit stone made it much better and after I put it through a few months use I eventually sharpened from 1000 to 6000 and that really opened it up. Truthfully my Shig is probably sharper then my KS.

One of the sharpest knives OOTB I've used is a Kochi petty. Well once I sharpened it up, my god it's a laser. I don't think it has the greatest edge retention though.

Bottom line is, not many knives are going to truly wow you OOTB once you get used to sharp knives in general and most knives even if exceptionally sharp OOTB will become mini Samurai swords once you put them to the stones.