JNS Kato Workhorse

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ChipB

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I'm very interested in Kato knives and have been emailing Maksim to try to get a couple answers about his workhorse line, but haven't gotten a response so thought I'd try my luck here. Was looking for answers to the following:

1) How does the Yoshiaki Fujiwara line differ from regular Kato knives if at all?
2) What is the cladding? Iron, softer carbon steel etc.
3) Is the listed weight of 270 grams correct on the 240? That's approaching heavy deba weight and seems a bit high especially as the 210 is listed at 183 grams. Adding nearly 100 grams for an extra inch of knife is odd
4) Is the steel white number 2?

If anyone knows the answer to any of these questions it would be much appreciated
 
I'll have a go, because I like my Katos.

I've seen other Kato in Japan, and they look pretty much the same but are apparently made with Blue #2. Actually, blue #2 is really popular in Japan and would be considered good. The JNS ones, though, do have a special steel - some kind of old stuff, I forget. It's harder and can get sharper, etc. Great stuff, and no not white #2.

Cladding - actually, I don't know, but it's quite hard. It's not like a Shig, for example, so you would be putting nice hazy kasumi patterns on it.

270g - yes, I believe it is. I think mine is there. On the heavy side for sure.
 
Awesome, thanks Asteger. Very helpful indeed!
 
IMO, if you look carefully, JNS workhorse and kikuryu are also generally a bit taller and has slightly different profile, especially towards the tip. My kikuryu 240 is 270g with handle.
 
Some pictures, JNS, japan-tool, tosho:

P1070406__02998.1382016153.1280.1280.jpg

Fujiwara_Gyuto02.jpg

kato-gyu210_0_0.jpg
 
Just to clarify as I made a typo - I wrote:

'Cladding - actually, I don't know, but it's quite hard. It's not like a Shig, for example, so you would be putting nice hazy kasumi patterns on it.'

But I meant that the cladding is hard (which is one reason why the knife's been described as performing more like a honyaki) and so you would NOT be able to sand a pretty kasumi haze onto it.
 
I could definitely be mistaken, but didnt Mark have some Katos for sale in white steel a few monthes ago? Either way, FWIW the workhorse series that Maxim carries is the way to go if you get a Kato. Awesome Steel and grind atleast, but they're certainly for people who prefer heavy gyutos. The cladding is not too reactive either for soft cladding but who knows that could just be my imagination.
 
Interesting, and great color guys. I do prefer a bit more heft in my knives which is what drew me to the knives. If you guys were going to contrast these with a Shig (own a kasumi in 240), what would your thoughts be there?
 
Interesting, and great color guys. I do prefer a bit more heft in my knives which is what drew me to the knives. If you guys were going to contrast these with a Shig (own a kasumi in 240), what would your thoughts be there?

Kato would make a good contrast with a shig, or any other knife really lol. Theres nothing else out there that is quite like Kato, its pretty unique due to its weight, spine thickness and size.
 
It seems that this thread would be a good place to ask the following question - are all Kato gyuto knives available via JNS designed as 'workhorse'? My concern is the weight as 270g is definitely more that I would like a 240mm gyuto to weight
 
That's kind of where I was going with this as well. 9.5 oz is really heavy German territory. I've noticed non-JNS Kato 240s are about 1.5 oz lighter
 
They don't feel heavy during use. And It's my understanding that Maxim has them made to his specs, as such they are only available in that weight range (and only available on his site in that style). Never heard of anyone doing a special order, which makes me think it would've happened by now considering some of the deep pockets that hang out around here. I could be wrong... Somebody please prove me wrong...

My 240 Kato is the one knife that I've sold over the last year, that I truly regret letting go of during my search for new gyutos. And that included: A new batch DT, Pierre Midtech, old school Masamoto KS, and Itonomonn Kurouchi(as well as a couple passarounds: Watanabe pro, Singatrin, and one or two that I've forgotten because they didn't impress me). All very fairly different in terms of grind, and weight. But none held a candle, both in terms of feel, performance, and edge retention to the Kato IMO(Watanabe was in the ballpark). I stopped my search last fall with a Kasumi Shig. It's the only other gyuto I've used thus far that has the same character, and level of performance. You really can't compare the two, as the edge retention on the shig is nowhere near the Kato. And the Shig weighs at least 30-40 grams less. But they're both the most unique feeling gyutos I've worked with. Both have a very singular character, and that nice wow factor when cutting(and chunkier emotos, which is a must IMO)

I'm definitely picking up another Kato at the end of the summer when I get my loyalty bonus...

Miss that sucker...
 
I stopped my search last fall with a Kasumi Shig. It's the only other gyuto I've used thus far that has the same character, and level of performance. You really can't compare the two, as the edge retention on the shig is nowhere near the Kato. And the Shig weighs at least 30-40 grams less. But they're both the most unique feeling gyutos I've worked with. Both have a very singular character, and that nice wow factor when cutting(and chunkier emotos, which is a must IMO)

Couldn't agree more about the neck. One of the first, and most pleasing things I noticed about my Shig. Absolutely smitten with the knife and, is by far the best blade in my block (which is admittedly far smaller/less seasoned than yours). But, like you, the I approach I take to knife connoisseurship is to sample many variants of a given pattern (in this case gyuto), to better my understand the nuances of the blade and, ultimately, define what my ideal knife is. To that end, from what I have heard/read about Kato blades, I would be remiss if I didn't grab one.

Side note, Tosho and CKTG both carry Kato knives with different weight profiles (can't really tell if the edge profile and blade geometry differs) from JNS. Both sites claim White #1 for the steel. I get a little skeptical of the JNS line when I can't get answers to some very basic questions about the knife. I'm not questioning whether or not they are Katos, but it does raise some flags inre steel, quality, comparative performance etc., when some very basic questions about the knife seemingly can't/won't be answered.
 
You can use the JNS website to ask Maxim questions in real time if he is available. If he isnt online he always gets back in touch via email promptly with whatever questions you may have. Or you can PM him here. Or you can even start a thread in his sub forum.
 
Emailed him multiple times with no response. A bit discouraging to be honest. Doesn't exactly endear me to his product. Especially when Tosho, CKTG, Japan Woodworker etc. are all reliable, and responsive alternatives.
 
He lost a potential sale on a Shigefusa, and will likely lose one on a Kato as a result
 
Guess losing a sale on either smith doesn't mean a lot as both sell quick, but that is short sighted. Tosho can thank JNS for the Kato 240 purchase (in stock on both sites) as Maxim couldn't be bothered to respond to multiple info requests for weeks.
 
I just seen that post.

So i will try to explain politely .

When i start to read my emails in the morning i look them all quickly through first. And if i have 2 same emails in the inbox one with questions and another one with threatening text where it says if i don't answer right away he go and buy els where, i simply delete that emails. So simple is that. They was send same day as i can see

I am not a professional web store as it also says on my website. I am alone to answer all emails do all bookkeeping ordering everything researching testing packing. Do all paperwork for export import etc. etc.
And i enjoying it very much ! :) But please understand sometimes it will take more then one day to answer your emails

Also as i am one man i do take things personal sometimes :O as all products i sell is only selected by me in japan where i meet the makers talk to them get good relationship with them then test a lot before i put them on the store. Thats why i have only 3 makers in the store ! I wait in many cases for knives 2 or 3 years !!! To get my knives finished like i want them.
So when costumer can not wait one day to get answer i just don't take that serious, Sorry !

Now for my answers to your questions:

1) How does the Yoshiaki Fujiwara line differ from regular Kato knives if at all?
Profile, Steel, FF, Heat-treat, Handle, Grind

2) What is the cladding? Iron, softer carbon steel etc.
Soft iron

3) Is the listed weight of 270 grams correct on the 240? That's approaching heavy deba weight and seems a bit high especially as the 210 is listed at 183 grams. Adding nearly 100 grams for an extra inch of knife is odd
Yes it is correct it is taler knife thats why wight a lot more

4) Is the steel white number 2?
No
 
Also i like to point out that many emails get in the spam folder. Or just get missed. Thats how it is :(
But even so there is Soooooo many places to contact me and ask some question.
Also i have huge Wiki where almost everything can be answered. Videos even video of Kato making that workhorse

And you will never waist my time to ask questions !!! I will love to answer them ! All i say dont be rude when you do it :p
 
Thank you Maksim. I have one question left - could there ever be a lighter version of Kato gyuto (like 'non workhorse'), or is the current design simply the way Kato forges his gyutos and does not make any thinner/lighter versions.
 
I did try all designs before we went for workhorse.
All the good stuff about Kato is lost if you make it thiner and lighter
He can do or do make them thinner and lighter. But i just dont like them that way thats why i will not have them :)
 
One question from me, in terms of performance how different is the Damascus from the clad? Should I get clad for next knife or worth it to save more and get Damascus.

Ps sorry but I forgot what's it's actually called k something or other. Not sure what's the difference between that and Damascus.
 
You can have a look at western handle version, Matus. Although it is not lighter per see, but it is slightly thinner at the spine as far as I have seen.
 
One question from me, in terms of performance how different is the Damascus from the clad? Should I get clad for next knife or worth it to save more and get Damascus.

Ps sorry but I forgot what's it's actually called k something or other. Not sure what's the difference between that and Damascus.

The cladding is even harder then on Kasumi. Kikuryu actually quenched like honyaki blades with more clay on the spine.

But workhorse have all the good stuff as Kikuryu have :) I think it is more workmanship of Kikuryu and looks. Where workhorse is just workhorse :)
 
Thanks Maksim, give me a few month and I will come knocking.
 
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