Abs ms exam on kitchen knives

I was watching a video about the ABS exam and while I understand those pieces that pass the exam are the very finely crafted I am not sure if it will translate into kitchen knives .
Cutting 2 2x4s for example , doesnt the knife has to be thick behind the edge to withstand that abuse and still be sharp enough to shave afterwards ? Or be softer than usual kitchen knives ? I don't see myself trying the same with my Shigefusa gyuto
Or being able to bend the knife more than 90 degrees? I guess it will show the differential heat treatment on the spine but It was painful to watch it , I am not sure if some well regarded cutters will past that test , or even if they don't will it make them inferior ?




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From what ive seen the point is you need to be good enough to make a knife to pass the test. If you want to be a mastersmith. You should be able to make all different types of knives. I have no real experience and dont know anyone personally but from reading and stuff the guys make knives specifically for the test they dont make knives to cut vegetables and protien and then enter them in a test... no a shigefusa or 90% or kitchen knives we use couldent past the test and they are still amazingly made knives but if you want to be a mastersmith you should have the skills to make a large variety of knives. Hopefully some of the great bladesmiths on here see and chime in because they would be able to explain it better.

Absolutely true, but not actually relevant to the test. The knives used in the exam are made by the smith for the specific tests involved. The exam is meant to test the smiths ability to forge, shape, and treat knife steel, not his ability to create a great cutting gyuto. From what I've seen there's only a handful of MS's making quality kitchen knives, the rest probably have no idea how to properly grind a gyuto (nor do they probably care). Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking anyone that has earned MS, I'm just saying that most of them don't care about kitchen knives. They're busy making beautiful tactical, folding, and hunting knives (and swords:knight, none of which really need great release on starchy tubers.

Be well,
Mikey

I am of the opinion that mastersmith is a bit like being an eagle scout in America. I wouldn't take it especially seriously.

I think that's pretty disrespectful, what are you basing that opinion on?

Von blewitt said:

I think that's pretty disrespectful, what are you basing that opinion on?

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Not especially disrespectful. Many good makers are MS.

My question was to see if a blade prepared for the abs exam would be a still great cutter and still pass it , if our resident makers ms or not can chime in it would be appreciated .
I haven't had any knives made by MS, hopefully it will change soon, maybe the users of Carters , Burke's or Kramer's can explain as well.
I think it is disrespectful to those who earned that journeyman or Master smith title to compare them to Boy Scouts . There is unbelievable preparation and dedication involved, my aim was not to start another why so japanocentric thread , rather getting some information . Watching kramer on top chef and another video brought this question to my mind , if you have nothing to add to this thread I ask you to not clutter it


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I once heard a quote by a ABS Master Smith "I'll show you how to make a blade which passes the performance test, then I'll show you how to make a good blade".

chefcomesback said:

My question was to see if a blade prepared for the abs exam would be a still great cutter and still pass it , if our resident makers ms or not can chime in it would be appreciated .
I haven't had any knives made by MS, hopefully it will change soon, maybe the users of Carters , Burke's or Kramer's can explain as well.
I think it is disrespectful to those who earned that journeyman or Master smith title to compare them to Boy Scouts . There is unbelievable preparation and dedication involved, my aim was not to start another why so japanocentric thread , rather getting some information . Watching kramer on top chef and another video brought this question to my mind , if you have nothing to add to this thread I ask you to not clutter it


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I don't think the question is disrespectful, it was the comparison to Boy Scouts with no justification that I have an issue with.

I definately think that a knife that would pass all the requirements of the ABS test wouldn't make a good kitchen knife, but it does test the skills of the smith, and a maker that understands the difference will be more likely to produce a good kitchen knife.

I have owned knives by MasterSmiths, and they aren't necessarily superior to knives made by Japanese makers and non MS makers from the US, but I respect the level of skill required to pass the test.

I have a problem with the ABS test itself. I know that with the following lines I am positioning myself to have some of the residents here rip me a new one.

I think it is staged for maximum marketing value and not maximum torture of the knife/knifemaker skill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWNh6UvE8lA

Watching this video a few things came to mind.

Performance test depends on the knifeskills of the knifemaker which is absurd. Also why 2 pieces of wood and only one cut at the rope. The 300 damascus layer is too arbitrary for my taste - it makes sense to be some power of two (64,128,256,512).

The bending test - the blade stays bent after release - this knife is unusable. I would much prefer to have requirement for 45 (or 15 or whatever is reasonable) degrees and then spring back into shape, but it is not as flashy as 90 degrees.

Of course there may be information why the test is staged as it is, but I was not able to find it.

Mert,

I happened to be fortunate enough to witness an ABS test last year at the HHH hammer in. What I can tell you is that I don't think that I could say it any better than Jai. The test are set up to see if the smith can make a knife (usually a Bowie style) that can pass the test. The type of knife being made DOES NOT seem to hold relevance. I am of a feeling that if you can make a knife that will withstand the two by four, rope and bending test, you should be able to make any kind of knife you want with said skills. Hope this helps.

Al

I am not familiar first hand with ABS test and I am sure its quite hard to pass it and require lots of skill and talent but it looks quite one-sided. Different skills/techniques are involved in making knives to perform different tasks. In my ignorant in this case opinion its like being a good Rally Driver which is quite a merit - but it does not make you a good NASCAR or F1 driver.

Anywho, many other "certifications" have ramifications after certain level, may be it would fit here in some way.

I've always wondered if some kitchen knives I've got are in some way inferior to the MS knives in terms of edge resistance. I don't think I could chop a 2x4 in half with my knives and then still shave with them. I would guess a knife that can withstand that abuse would be fairly resilient on potatoes and carrots too?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28BzKl3SM4k

This video explains the test very clearly - I liked it!

How many of the best Chefs in the US are actually ACF certified? Why? Because it doesn't matter in 95% of the industry.
I'm guessing it's the same with Bladesmiths. Nice to have, (you can put some letters after your name) but not really necessary..

ecchef said:

How many of the best Chefs in the US are actually ACF certified? Why? Because it doesn't matter in 95% of the industry.
I'm guessing it's the same with Bladesmiths. Nice to have, (you can put some letters after your name) but not really necessary..

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I like the comparison, some of the best chefs I know are not ACF certified, nor do they want to be