Levain (Sourdough) Bread Baking

This place seems good as any to discuss one of my new passions, levain or sourdough bread baking. I started a mother batch about 4 weeks ago, placing flour and water in a bowl, with a towel over the top for three days. I did this for a couple weeks, feeding it with flour & water every day until it started rising and falling on a predictable schedule. So where is the yeast? As many of you probably know, there is natural yeast everywhere. In flour, on your hands, in the air. I'm certainly no genius on the subject, but I love the flexibility of natural yeast and the fact they have their own finicky character. While many know all about sour dough and it's acetic taste, many don't know you can use the same starter to create a much more mild and rounded flavor. Since I started I've made quite a few errors, but the results have still been good. BTW, I've been bread baking for 10 years and love to use monoculture aka commercial yeast. It's predictable and easy to use. But hey, who doesn't like to have a love affair with a finicky and wild mistress! :spiteful: Anyways, this thread is not meant to be a how-to, but a picture thread on my progress.

While I didn't get the initial pics from the starter, here is the end result. I keep it in my refer during the week and pull it on Friday morning for weekend baking.


After mixing, proofing, shaping, I put it in a coiled cane basket for the final shaping and rise overnight. This is a 50/50 blend of whole wheat & white.


After about 8-12 hours in the refer, I have a risen bread ready to put in the oven. This is a 25/75 blend of whole wheat/white. These were taken at different times.


Using the book Tartine by Chad Robertson, he recommends using a combo cooker like this one by Lodge. It helps keep the steam in during the initial baking. About halfway through I remove the top for browning.


After about 40 minutes at 450F (in my oven, yours may vary), here is the product:


I'm still working on the ears part, and am still not getting a great oven spring. Still, the final product tastes good and looks decent too.


I'll post more pics as I have a few loaves baking now.

Jason

First loaf, a little oblong (stuck in the banneton) and my score needed to be deeper.

Are you pre-heating the Dutch oven enough? That's what kept me from getting a great oven spring at first.

I am, for at least 1 hour prior to baking. Timing in my proofing stage is what I think is preventing it. Also, I use a heavy dosage of grains in my recipes which is always going make the loaf denser.

Ah, yeah I never folded anything into my loaves. Your loaves still look better than mine did!

And tbh, I like the offset look of the one that got stuck

What about a hotter, harder-hitting preheat with a lower normal temp for browning once it's uncovered for that oven spring without overdoing it on the crust?

This is what I am used to with my commercial yeast. I understand it's not always the same with levain. The crumb is the important part, and I'm doing alright there.

kielasaurus said:

What about a hotter, harder-hitting preheat with a lower normal temp for browning once it's uncovered for that oven spring without overdoing it on the crust?

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I've read about that, I may do that next. The thing about the combo cooker is that it's supposed to remove that tip i.e. keeping in the steam.

ETA: I think I'm over proofing too. That'll really limit the spring.

ETA: I use a 70% hydration recipe, so it's also denser.

That sounds about right though for the Tartine method. I would try preheating 25-50F hotter than the recommended baking temp and then drop it once you put the combo-cooker and dough in. The oven spring occurs in the first few minutes anyway and by the time it's taken place, the dutch oven will have dropped a fair amount in temperature from the cold/room temp dough and the drop in oven temp even in a non-convection oven. Just my 2 cents. Also, I look forward to updates on this matter. In addition, have you gotten your hands on the newest Chad Robertson book? Tartine No. 3?

I haven't gotten it yet, let me check out Amazon...

Here is the latest loaf crumb (the oblong one)

Nice, looking good!

One more update before I go to bed. Latest loaf:

Nice looking stuff. In fact your bread looks like the 6-8$ loaves in my higher end ca markets. You should try a Fibrament baking stone. They'll make custom stones to fit your oven dimensions. It's thicker material than your typically cheap pizza stones, it's more expensive but a great investment.

Wish I were successful at this. Need to try again. Tried a simplified NY Times adaptation of Robertson's [38 page] recipe, and my starter failed to come to life after about a week. Great disappointment! I love good, crusty bread -- give me a freshly baked loaf and some butter and I'm delighted to make a meal of it.

Back home we add up to a third of rye flour to that, really wish I could replicate that here. But as I said somewhere else, I killed a few starters because I did not feed them every day, better that I don't have any kids or pets...

Long time ago, during my post doc in the US, I traveled home once and asked my next door neighbor in my home village to show me how to bake bread. She thought that was the funniest thing ever. A man baking bread! In the village you could always go to the village baker and get some sourdough starter if yours died. Although, I mostly stopped by the baker ealry in the morning on my way home from the pub... Anyway, when I was a kid, the neighbor had pigs and the she was baking bread in the communal wood-fired oven in the village every week, and she supplied us with sausage and bread. My other neighbor had a couple of cows, so we got fresh milk from them, occasionally even a bit of fresh butter. With slaughtering an occasional pig, having chicken in the back yard, a dozen fruit trees, and a tiny bit of land to grow veggies, trips to the supermarket were much rarer than today... Still remember the guy with the large mandolin coming to our house to cut the cabbage for the sauerkraut my Grandma made in her cellar, and in the fall there was the guy with the fruit press on his truck bed coming around, pressing the apples so we could make cider/apple wine. Ah, the good old days...

Sorry for rambling, but you see what memories you stir up just with a few pictures of good bread, Jason.

Stefan

For oven spring, timing is key, you need to catch the rise before it peaks. I am fighting it also, but when I nail it, I have had what must be 20% spring.

I have two books by Peter Reinhart, He discusses it in depth.

Take the liquid that splits off of your starter, and use it as a mother for fermenting peppers for hot sauce. It gets a really good result.

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm really starting to get the hang of it as my loaves are looking like what you see in books. Pierre is right, when I started catching it before it rose completely the oven spring was fantastic!

apicius9 said:

Back home we add up to a third of rye flour to that, really wish I could replicate that here. But as I said somewhere else, I killed a few starters because I did not feed them every day, better that I don't have any kids or pets...

Long time ago, during my post doc in the US, I traveled home once and asked my next door neighbor in my home village to show me how to bake bread. She thought that was the funniest thing ever. A man baking bread! In the village you could always go to the village baker and get some sourdough starter if yours died. Although, I mostly stopped by the baker ealry in the morning on my way home from the pub... Anyway, when I was a kid, the neighbor had pigs and the she was baking bread in the communal wood-fired oven in the village every week, and she supplied us with sausage and bread. My other neighbor had a couple of cows, so we got fresh milk from them, occasionally even a bit of fresh butter. With slaughtering an occasional pig, having chicken in the back yard, a dozen fruit trees, and a tiny bit of land to grow veggies, trips to the supermarket were much rarer than today... Still remember the guy with the large mandolin coming to our house to cut the cabbage for the sauerkraut my Grandma made in her cellar, and in the fall there was the guy with the fruit press on his truck bed coming around, pressing the apples so we could make cider/apple wine. Ah, the good old days...

Sorry for rambling, but you see what memories you stir up just with a few pictures of good bread, Jason.

Stefan

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Love to bring back those memories Stefan! Makes me miss Germany too.

CutFingers said:

Nice looking stuff. In fact your bread looks like the 6-8$ loaves in my higher end ca markets. You should try a Fibrament baking stone. They'll make custom stones to fit your oven dimensions. It's thicker material than your typically cheap pizza stones, it's more expensive but a great investment.

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I appreciate the compliments. Where are you in CA? I'm in NorCal near Napa. The flavor is pretty good too, almost better than some bread shops in the area.

Cool man...That's not far from my neck of the woods at all. If you get a chance try this guy...He makes really nice consistent bread and if you keep it in a paper bag it's just as good a day or two later. Never under baked always proofed right and the density and holes in the bread are really nice. The baguettes are pretty darn good. For a hipster he's allright

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdRMaDLQLm4

A few new loaves from a 70% hydration, 90% white & 10% whole wheat levain based bread. This will have a tang, but not near the sour taste many expect. It was a young levain. I am starting to get the hang of it, you really have to bake it as the yeasts have food to still eat. Overproofing leads to flat loaves, as shown before. I particularly love the natural scoring of the loaves in the combo cooker.

I just started my first natural starter with some grape skins...hopefully it works. I'm giving it three or four days to ferment. I don't see many bubbles or activity yet but it's only been one day.

Looking good Jason!
I'm just learning you are out of CO, congrats on the move (I hope). It certainly puts you proximal to some great coffee roasters, which is always nice.
Have you been checking out he artisanal bakeries around there? I could offer up some suggestions, I love this stuff.

Unsolicited suggestions :

Given where you are now, you should really go get some Rye from the Bale Grist Mill it adds a tremendous depth, also take the tour It's an interesting time and a tasty addition. Much better than anything you are going to find at the store.

Find some Della Fattoria Myer lemon rosemary bread. It's the one that made me decide it's "ok" to put stuff in your dough (I'm generally a purist).

Have you discovered Strauss butter yet? I have grown to love it so much that I feel like I'm being punished when I run out.

I can't say it was where I wanted to go, but there are a lot worse places to be! It certainly is the center of the foodie universe in this country, or at least near the top. The French Laundry is less than an hour away, as is San Fran...but you know this. I plan on getting some rye, I will check that place out. Strauss butter, I'm hooked before I'm hooked. As far as coffee, I've been to Blue Bottle in San Fran and had a cappuccino, the best I've ever had. No kidding. I spend a bit of time in Napa, but more Sonoma. I just got a motorcycle so I'm about to cruise all over the place. Anyways, I'm always open to suggestions...always.

Jason

Ride out to Armstrong Redwoods in Guernville. It's a pretty awesome spot and not too many tourists.