Did i throw away my money on a Shun Reserve

Hi, i'm extremely new around here, and I found a thread that is troubling to me. This past weekend I was in a knife store and they were having a 40% off sale on all Shun cutlery, so I bought a Shun Reserve 8" chef's knife for $180. This is undoubtedly a good price for this knife, but from some of the stuff I've read on here, it seems like i might have thrown away my money on a knife I can't sharpen myself.
According to this thread, it seems like the Shun Reserve cannot be home sharpened with a wet stone, is that true:
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/6706-Shun-Premier-vs-Shun-Reserves

From the above thread, it seems like Marko Tsourkan and others are saying that knives which use SG2 cannot be sharpened with a wet stone and must be sent to a pro sharpener. However, i found a youtube video of a guy sharpening this miyabi SG2 knife with a wet stone: http://www.cutleryandmore.com/miyabi-birchwood-sg2
And here is the youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTKV5-ZSWcE

So it seems like that miyabi which uses SG2 can be sharpened with a wet stone, so then why can the Shun Reserve not be sharpened with a Wet Stone? Is it because of the other metals in use in the blade?

Any advice anyone could give me would be really helpful, because i'd really like to buy a set of stones and start sharpening my new purchase, but i don't want to make that investment if i have a knife that cannot be sharpened with them.

Lastly, one other question i have is about all the folks on here with strong opinions about knife steels and brands and such as: How have you developed these opinions? It seems like to know how well a knife holds it's edge after months of use, you'd have to own it, so do you guys own like 10 or more of these $300-$500 knives? I'm just curious because i'd like to be able to develop such opinions myself, but the only way I can see being able to do that is with like a $5000 or more investment.

Anyway, thanks for reading and thanks in advance for any advice here!

Welcome to KKF! You're in the right place.

I read Marko's comments and I think he was saying that it's more difficult to sharpen, not that you can't sharpen. Then he was presenting an alternative of sending it out to be sharpened and stating what he considered to be undesirable with that option.

RE: the folks on here owning 10+ knives...yes. I would guess that's a reasonable candidate for the median number of knives people on this forum have I know one member has (had?) over 100--concurrently. Also, a lot of folks on here buy knives, keep them for a bit then sell them and get something different. so they have had quite a lot more than 10 in-hand over time.

You can sharpen Sg2 with waterstones. It's just more abrasion resistant so it takes longer than carbons or non- powdered stainless. It's not even among the most abrasion resistant pm steels, it will sharpen up fine.

A couple ways to try out other knives without having to buy them are participating in pass-arounds and borrowing from other KKF members who live near you.

Make sure you get stones that can deal with that steel.

Thanks for all the responses everyone. This makes me feel better about my new knife.

Benuser said:

Make sure you get stones that can deal with that steel.

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So, how do i find stones that can deal with that steel? Does anyone have any suggestions?

My first thought would be very hard and fast cutting synthetics, like Shapton Glass or Naniwa Chosera stones.

I currently use Gesshin 400, 1200, and 4000 stones, and previously used Shapton glass stones. These all worked just fine on my Miyabi 7000mc petty made of ZDP-189, which is more wear resistant then SG-2. The hard PM steels will obviously take longer (especially if you're setting a new bevel), but I think the edge retention is well worth it. I recommend you give Jon at Japanese Knife Imports a call, he'll be able to point you in the right direction.

Be well,
Mikey

erikz said:

My first thought would be very hard and fast cutting synthetics, like Shapton Glass or Naniwa Chosera stones.

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Very cool, thanks! Do you guys have a preferred place to get your stones such as the ones you suggested?

Id say go to Jon from JKI as well before committing to buy something. Hes one of the absolute experts here.

Thanks for the great info everyone!
One other question: what is everyone's opinion of the shun reserve knives? The only real complaint I've seen are that they're overpriced but that wasn't an issue in my case because I got it discounted. Are there other reasons shun is looked down upon? The knife itself is beautiful and the steel seems to be comparable to a lot of other respected blades...

It's not that guys here look down upon them. Hell, quite a few of the guys here first got into Japanese knives because, of shuns and globals. It is more of a matter of moving beyond those knives and discovering that there are a wide range of better made higher quality knives at a similar price point and some at an even lower price point. Shun blades also tend to not be heat treated to their optimal potential.The cladding tends to be soft and easily scratched and the designs are all over the place. Many of the designs have no practical purpose whatsoever. With that said, every once in awhile they come out with a fairly well thought design.

shun sg2 sharpens up really good I think, compared to other big market gyutos. I found that as long as I start my progression with a low grit 320# or gesshin 400 that the steel didnt take too much time on the stones at all.

Sg2 / R2 is pretty easy to get a great edge on. At least the stuff I've sharpened was quite easy to work with.

Blyler said:

So, how do i find stones that can deal with that steel? Does anyone have any suggestions?

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I wouldn't over-think it too much. I was gifted a Shun Kaji (also SG-2) and it's nowhere near as difficult as it's being made out.

You could sharpen up your Shun on a King 1k (one of the slower, more inexpensive stones). It would just take more time.

Starting out I would recommend getting a Bester 1200 & a Suehira Rika 5k. Throw them in a bucket with water and let them stay there permanently. Later on down the line you can invest in a diamond plate for flattening and a coarse stone (300-600 grit), but for a home cook just learning to sharpen that's still a little way off.

Watch the entire sharpening playlist from Jon @ Japanese Knife Import (JKI) on youtube.

Have fun. Enjoy your new knife.

(Chosera -- and all Naniwa stones -- have seen a rather large price-jump recently. They are right up there with Gesshin & JNS stones price wise. All great options, & top of the line, but they're expensive for someone just getting their feet wet.

The Shapton 1k Glass Stone is pretty good. It's very quick cutting stone but feedback isn't that great for a beginner and I really, really dislike the higher grit options in the line.)

Umm I just use the bester 1200 and rika 5k. For lower grit I'll use the gesshin 400 or beston 500.

I will comment on two points hopefully it will add value rather then just repeat whats been said:

First marko talking about sg2 and water stones. this is more a comment on what is effective at removing the sg2 steel. steels like sg2 are usually better with rougher and tougher stones and by that im not referring to grit but the actually thing that is doing the cutting. water stones tend to be softer and designed to break down at a good rate as you sharpen to create a useful slurry of stone/metal/water to aid in sharpening. what can happen with some stones and harder steels is the stone will feel slippery because either the stone feels clogged with the metal being removed and the other is because its just not grinding the steel fast enough. some water stones are designed to be "harder" in this sense the compound holding the abrasive in the stones doesn't break down before the steel is removed what you give up with these stones is feel because they tend to feel rough or bumpy so its harder to maintain a smooth consistent finish or grind. one of the best solutions involved diamond grit stones. it will be the most aggressive and likewise last the longer then most other options. sg2 is a steel i have a lot of experience with and like other have said no reason you cant sharpen it and no reason for it to not take a great edge that it holds for a good amount of time. btw stone id recommend is the gesshin 400 and bester 1200... if you want a finishing stone the rika is a fine choice but there are many fine choices. if you want to look at diamonds the money involved could go up a lot plus i think those stones are too fast to develop the muscle memory needed to get a nice grind.

on to my second point. how do people develop these strong opinions? well you have a lot of things going on here... like all things there is a bit of a bandwagon atmosphere where people pile on regardless of there actually level of experience but beyond that there is a wealth of experience here. you saying 10 knives that cost 300-500 is a far cry from the experience that exists... now yes there are a lot new users or new personalities that have a pile on effect because they read a thing or two and things felt the same but likewise there are enough honest folks who wield knives without too much prejudice and they have been doing it for years. the grain of salt that i will add is one persons mecca is easily another person's trash. i think the biggest proof has nothing to do with what people say but what good makers are putting out. for instance i bought a chef knife from a well known knife maker in a steel people claimed at the time was hard to sharpen and didnt hold a shaving sharp edge long enough and took too long to achieve the shaving sharp. well i talked to the marker and explained all these faults this knife supposedly had and likewise i told the marker my hopes and planed use. the maker was adamant id be happy. well turns out the marker hit the bullseye. im not saying peoples opinions were wrong but what im suggesting is people often buy things that aren't suited for them because they predefine things without allowing for not knowing what actually suits them.

Powder steel knives can be sharpened on whetstones no problem. It just takes a bit more time, so make sure you invest in a good set of stones. So working with your tough metal, my recommendation for stones are the Power sigma select series. They are made with no bonding agents through vitrification, so similar to your glass stones. This series is designed to cut. For lower grits the #400 is great. The #1200 cuts VERY fast and does not dish and clog that fast. Thats very handy for your tougher steel. If you are on a budget go for their combination #1000/#6000 stone. The #1000 half cuts quickly but at the price of dishing just as fast (thats my only complaint on that stone, need to quite often). The #6000 cuts fast as well but like I said they are designed for cutting so dont expect a nice polished finish. Now if you want a nice mirror polish jump to their #13000 stone, it is fantastic. It blows any Superstone near that grit number out of the water when it comes to cutting speed and mirror finish.

Its really easy to sharpen sg2 steel and it takes a total of 1-2 minutes longer than most of my carbon steels but it sharpens faster than cpm154 in my experience.
Its really easy to get sharp and it forms a great burr. Unlike some cheap stainless knives.

This may seem like blasphemy, but I like Spyderco ceramic stones for hard stainless steel. I use them on a variety of powder metal steels and they work fine. Frankly, when I am in a hurry, I will go to a 1" belt sander with a fine belt for a pocket knife or machete that I have managed to dull, but that is not something I would do with a kitchen knife.
The Spyderco hard ceramics work fine on steels like SG3, XHP, S35V, S30V, etc. I wouldn't use these stones on a high carbon steel, but they are great for stainless with lots of chrome. I use them dry.
Yes I have a variety of expensive Japanese water stones, oil stones, rare Arkansas stones, and others, but I find the hard ceramics are great for stainless steel.

So much amazing information! This is great! I really like the idea of the splash-and-go stones, so the gesshin's or the shapton's look really good to me right now. Also, I know you guys are all probably used to this, but my inner-junior-higher finds it enjoyable that we're all talking about our sets of stones.

Blyler said:

my inner-junior-higher finds it enjoyable that we're all talking about our sets of stones.

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Ha! You must have missed the part about soaking them and flattening them before use:cool2:

Yes