Looking for a Wife Knife and a Cleaver Comrade.

Hello all. I think the title sums it up fairly well. Like many here, I have always liked sharp shiny things, but I never really liked using a chefs knife. I personally think that the rock chop motion is not at all natural and only those who train as professionals ever get to like it. In the not too distant past I bought a cleaver from BST (Thanks JKerr), and I was very surprised that the first time I used it, it just felt right in my hand. I had no adjustment period at all. So I think I will stick to a cleaver of some kind for my main knife, but it's a bit much hassle to get the cleaver out and then clean all that blade if you are just making a sandwich, or making a few quick cuts, so I want a secondary knife. I assume most people use a petty along with their cleaver but I don't know. All suggestions welcome.
I also want a knife for the Wife to use. When we had a Global knife set, she mostly used the GS39 followed by the GS51. I liked the GS39 as well to be honest, and used it in preference to the chefs knife in the set because as I have said above, I never really got on with chefs knives. So I am thinking a short santoku might fit the bill, but I can only find a few of those. They mostly come in 180mm and I think 160mm might suit better, but who knows. Maybe a tall petty?
Both knives should be stainless, or at least semi stainless clad in stainless. While I do look after my knives, and the wife is pretty good in that regard I don't want to have to baby my knives just to make sure they don't rust, and if I can ever get my sharpening up to spec stainless gets plenty sharp for me. Some more than others I know but while I do like a sharp knife I don't need the last word in sharpness.
I have a few knives to sell, that I don't get along with so the budget for both should be around £300 max.


LOCATION
What country are you in?

UK

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Probably a petty and a santoku but open to suggestions

Are you right or left handed?

Me- Right Handed Wife- Right Handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

I might like to try a wa handle. Wife would probably prefer western but she may try a wa as well. So basically - whatever

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

Probably a 150 petty and a 160ish santoku but again, suggestions please.

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

Yes

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

£300 for both

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

Slicing, chopping and basic prep. No boning, filleting etc.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

I have a 120mm Hiromoto G3 petty which I think is too short. Wife liked the Global GS39 we used to have.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

I use pinch on my cleaver. Point and pinch on my Honesuki. I think the wife just grabs the handle, but not sure.

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

Push cut and chop mostly. Wife mostly push cut.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

It's a knife to cut stuff with. Aesthetics doesn't bother me. Performance does.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Comfort is nice but I'm not sure what I want.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

Sharp out of the box is a requirement. Easy sharpening would be nice as I am a beginner in that regard.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

A few months of use once a day would be nice, but edge retention vs sharpenability, I'm not sure.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

Yes. Endgrain mostly.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes. Badly.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

Not at the minute.





SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

Am I the only one who while scanning your header read a comma where it wasn't there?
Oops! Good luck with your knife discovery journey.

How about a Nakiri? Since you really like the square and flat profile of a Chinese cleaver (which one did you get from Josh?) it'd make sense to buy a slimmer and shorter square blade. Have a look at the Sakai Yusuke Silver#3 165mm at BWJ on eBay. Or you can ask Keiichi at BWJ if he can source a Nakiri from Ashi Hamono for you in SS .
If you don't mind carbon core with SS cladding, check out JNS for Itinonmonn Kasumi series.

For your wife something like Takamura R2 Santoku 170mm or similar? It has western handle and should be very thin and nimble.

I use a cleaver as my chef knife. I've got a 210mm sujihiki, that compliments the cleaver.

Probably because of the cleaver, I prefer tall blades. I always seem to be chopping something. For those small tasks, when a cleaver would be too much, I picked up a santoku. 180mm seems to be a good length. I've never felt it was too big of a knife.

Jay

Wife Knife = SHUN Santoku http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000Y7KPO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

If my wife hasn't destroyed it, no one will. As far as a petty is concerned I'd say Blazen or Akifusa.

vai777 said:

Wife Knife = SHUN Santoku http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000Y7KPO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

If my wife hasn't destroyed it, no one will. As far as a petty is concerned I'd say Blazen or Akifusa.

Click to expand...

The problem with Akifusa is that the cheapest it is in Europe is 300$ (240mm) Even more with shipping from US + tax vat. And no one is selling it in Japan. I dream of one since I read the Gator's review.

Lizzardborn said:

The problem with Akifusa is that the cheapest it is in Europe is 300$ (240mm) Even more with shipping from US + tax vat. And no one is selling it in Japan. I dream of one since I read the Gator's review.

Click to expand...

The BLAZEN is 99% what the Akifusa is.

Same as the Akifusa... only have a 210mmm though. Maybe they can get a special order 240.... https://cuttingedgeknives.co.uk/brands/haruyuki/srs15/gyuto-8-210mm

There are bunch 165mm Santokus out there.
For really cheap you can get a Tanaka in Ginsanko from Metalmaster http://www.metalmaster-ww.com
For little bit more you can order Ashi Ginga stainless: http://www.ashihamono.com/en.html
I could also recommend Heiji, but I had rather mixed experience with it. I had to spend several hours on stones to make it cut the way I like. His Semi-Stainless is really good though.
Also there are few stores in America that might have what you want, but since you are in UK, the shipping will add up rather quickly + possible duty.

Lately, I use the 165mm santoku more for small task (not in hand*) than the petty.

I had always thought that a nakiri would be the perfect partner for a cleaver but I don't think it's what most cleaver users end up with. As with most things, I have gone down the road less traveled in using a cleaver as my main knife, but now that I have found that it works for me, I would like to learn from others who have gone down this road before me. I have seen Hax say that most Chinese chefs he has worked with use a slicing cleaver, a chopping cleaver and a petty type knife.
Jaybett, you say the 210 suji complements the cleaver. Can you explain please?
For full disclosure, I got myself an Ealy parer to see if I could get on board the bandwagon with a chef knife and parer being the main knives in any sensible cooks kit, but I just don't use the parer. I got a knife and then tried to find a role for it to fill. I now realise how stupid that was. I do pretty much all of my cutting on a board, and now I have decided on a cleaver as my main knife instead of a gyuto. I'm just not where where to go from here.
As for the wife knife, I think most home cooks are comfortable with the santoku design, and we have used and liked something similar so thats what I am leaning towards but I am open to being persuaded otherwise. The Shun santoku looks good, but I think the wife would prefer the more standard looking western handle. I don't want to convert her to jknives. I just want to give her something she can use and be happy with, which I can maintain for her. If I can find use for it myself, all the better.
Thanks for all you help and suggestions so far.

http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=86359 that should cover the santoku....

For the santoku check out the Masamoto VG series from JCK http://japanesechefsknife.com/VGSeries.html#VGSeries
As well as the Hirimoto AS http://japanesechefsknife.com/TenmiJyurakuSeries.html#AogamiSuper

The Hirimoto is my favorite and a bit longer than your normal santoku which I like a lot. Once the bluish patina forms at the edge it's really beautiful IMO.


eTA: $7 shipping worldwide at JCK

The cleaver covers 90 percent of what I do in the kitchen. The remaining 10 percent is needing to cut up fruit that is round or fruit that is too small for a cleaver. While I cut an orange into supremes, with a cleaver, it is awkward, and a bit scarey. I also enjoy slicing with a sujihiki more then a cleaver.

I choose a santoku over a nakiri, as a utility knife, because the nakiri is too close to a cleaver in performance. Also I wanted a knife that was more of an all around performer. The santoku has a tip.

Jay

for a santoku ,I would consider also a tojiro dp ,not fancy but good steel and it doesn't rust easy,it's also cheap

jaybett said:

The cleaver covers 90 percent of what I do in the kitchen. The remaining 10 percent is needing to cut up fruit that is round or fruit that is too small for a cleaver. While I cut an orange into supremes, with a cleaver, it is awkward, and a bit scarey. I also enjoy slicing with a sujihiki more then a cleaver.

I choose a santoku over a nakiri, as a utility knife, because the nakiri is too close to a cleaver in performance. Also I wanted a knife that was more of an all around performer. The santoku has a tip.

Jay

Click to expand...

Thanks for explaining your choices. It all makes perfect sense. I don't think I would go for a 210 petty though as I already have a slicing knife and I think I would prefer a 150 or possibly even a 180 to pair with the cleaver.
Vai777, I think you have pretty much sold me on the 150 Blazen as the yin to my cleaver's yang. The santoku, I'm not so sure about. I'm considering getting something really cheap as it will be a knife for the wife to use and abuse as she pleases. Not much point in getting her a knife if I'm going to moan about the way she uses it. She won't put it in the dishwasher or anything but it may get left dirty, knocked about, dropped etc. That leads me to the Misono Molybdenum sereis (With the added bonus that it could share shipping with the Blazen from JCK). That's in the same price bracket as the Tojiro DP and Tadafusa SLD from BluewayJapan. I'm also considering the more expensive Ashi Ginga 165 Home Style knife. What do you guys think of these choices? I'd prefer to buy direct from Japan rather than through the US as US imports always seem to get hit with customs fees, adding to the overall cost. The link to the UK retailer that Vai777 posted is very interesting but I have never heard of any of those knives.
I'd be interested to hear what other cleaver users have as a second knife (if any), but everything jaybett has said makes perfect sense to me, and I think I am finally heading down the right road with my next purchase. All I have to do now is sell some knives to pay for the new ones.
Oh, BTW, when I do get round to selling my knives, it looks like my budget for these new knives will probably be closer to £200 than £300 but pretty much all the suggestions so far come in around that anyway (excluding any possible customs charges).
Thanks for all the help everyone.

You could get her a 180mm Hiromoto Gingami No3 (stainless) Gyuto for about $100 Or a Masamoto VG 180MM Santoku for $144, The Kagayaki 175mm snatoku for $150 (very nice looking knife IMO) or the Kagayaki basic series 180 santoku for $86 all from JCK

I'm a cleaver user, but have few other knives to round everything out. Are you planning on getting a light thin slicing cleaver or a medium cleaver ? That might affect what you want to compliment the cleaver.

Below is generally what I like to use,

Medium Cleaver = all around
210 or 240 laser chef = when you need accuracy or a break from the cleaver (replaces the slicing cleaver)
Honesuki = for meat, mostly chicken duty
Petty/Parer = I use a cheap victorinox parer


I like to have the option of a western chef in the mix so I can develop western and eastern techniques (my excuse for more knives). But if I can only have 2 knives I'd get a cleaver and a thin short laser gyuto, ok and $5 paring knife.

I was round at the Mother In Law's today and in the knife block full of Globals (Which I left there as a thank you for letting us stay there while we were between houses recently), there is a Tojiro Senkou santoku and utility knife which they don't use. I bought them before I knew that I could have got much better knives for the money but we live and learn, eh! So I think I will claim them back and sharpen them up for the wife. If she want's something different, I can get that later when she lets me know what it is she wants. I think she will get on with them OK, because to her, a knife is pretty much a knife.
The Haruyuki santoku looks very nice, but would steel of that hardness be able to deal with much abuse? I am thinking further down the line here, but I like the sound of that one now that I have looked into it a bit more.

MikeHL, the cleaver I use at the minute is a Mizuno Tarenjo stainless slicing cleaver. What are the pros and cons of using a slicing cleaver (#6) or a medium cleaver (#7) as a main knife?
I also have a honesuki and a 270 suji (might change that for a 240 sometime) and am just looking for the right knife to round out the collection. Looks like that knife will probably be a petty/suji or a santoku or maybe even both.
So for those who are interested, I know what I'm getting.....for now.
Blazen 150 petty for me and Tojiro Senkou santoku and utility for the wife (which I already have. Kind of). If I find myself using the santoku then I may get a nice one for myself as well.

I use a medium clever as a main knife with a slicing cleaver as a side. I find that the food I cook (home cook) such as stir fry's, stews, curries require cutting hard veg in to small pieces. And as much as I like cooking I don't like to spent too much time preping. Thus I find the weight and speed of the medium cleaver suits my needs the best, its fast and contrary to what some might think its fast and accurate once you get used to it.

My slicing cleaver is just used for making ultra thin slices such as making chips, french onion soup etc.. This is what a slicing cleaver is used for in Chinese cuisine 1:30 min in [video=youtube_share;XG8XxiINpaI]http://youtu.be/XG8XxiINpaI[/video]

But in saying so, use whatever feels good to you. But since you asked:
Med Cleaver
Pros: speed, durability (for smacking garlic), versatility
Cons: wedging, not a precise as the thin cleaver

Slicing cleaver
Pros: ultra thin effortless cuts, accurate, no wedging.
Cons: lack of durability, not the best for hard veg.

If you have a honesuki and santoku then your ok for any though jobs.
If you every want to try a med cleaver just go to you local Chinese restaurant supply store. Grab something carbon and go to town, I try to avoid chinese stainless.