Forged vs Stamped any benefit?

The common knowledge seems to be that forged blade is better than stamped/laser cut/water jet cut/whatever. However I was reading a little bit more in regards and it looks like the modern steel does not benefit that much if at all from forging process.
Since this forum is a home to so many knowledgeable people I was wondering if somebody can shine a light on the above? Is there any real live difference in a forged blade from the bar vs cut one from the sheet. Given that all other things like HT and grind are done properly?

In general there should be no difference in performance, all else being equal. You can't forge most of the modern stainless steels because they are air hardening (I think maybe you can forge 440 stainless). You also can't call yourself a bladesmith if you don't forge the blades. In mass produced knives the touted "benefits" are just marketing phrases.

The link from previous topic.

http://www.cashenblades.com/images/articles/lowdown.html (credits to MATS40)

The topic

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/18662-Kramer-Evolution

The main difference I see between forged and stamped is the variation of spine thickness within a blade. Most(?) forged japanese gyutos will be 3mm to 4mm+ near the handle and quickly taper to the regular blade thickness, while most stamped blades will max out at about 2mm

See the thread and the link above.

There's a decent description as to the differences between forging and stock removal; but stock removal means that if you're not forging then you're using a grinder to set the geometry.

If you are just stamping out a blade from sheet metal and sharpening it (without utilising stock removal) it's going to be garbage.

MAS4T0 said:

If you are just stamping out a blade from sheet metal and sharpening it (without utilising stock removal) it's going to be garbage.

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You mean without heat treatment probably. Because it is impossible to cut from flat sheet and not remove stock at least for the tip.

Flat sheet or stock removal at the end it has to be heat treated and bevels need to be ground


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When you think about how a piece of steel is made, from molten metal to forged chunks to rolled sheet to strips of steel, you already have just about every process mentioned. The process by which you form a piece of mono steel into a knife is entirely down to your chosen production method, means and knowledge of the material within that. Not too many people forge mono steel unless it is by necessity as it comes in larger bar or for integral knives etc or traditional Honyaki.
If you start to talk about laminates, hot forging best fits the purpose and material in most cases in my opinion both aesthetically and in terms of maximum consolidation and heat cycling of the material, though I'm thinking on a small shop level. My personal favourite edge steel yet is not a mono steel, its a mixture of two steels in a high layer count. Cant really buy that off the shelf. Though products like Damasteel, Takefu, and Devin Thomas Damascus can give non-forgers a taste with a very uniform product suitable for stock removal.

Lizzardborn said:

You mean without heat treatment probably. Because it is impossible to cut from flat sheet and not remove stock at least for the tip.

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I should have been clearer.

I was speaking of cheap knives that are stamped from low grade stainless (which is heat treated prior to stamping) where the blade is under 1 mm thick at the spine, no profile or distal taper and the only grind to speak of is the 10 mm wide bevel.

The point I was trying to make was that while the a good knife can be made by either method, the very worst knives are likely to be stamped rather than forged.

Thanks guys! It's nice to get educated a little bit more in the morning.

Can you elaborate a bit on "air hardening?" (I'm following the links, so if it's in there, I'll share it back when I get done reading.)

orangehero said:

In general there should be no difference in performance, all else being equal. You can't forge most of the modern stainless steels because they are air hardening (I think maybe you can forge 440 stainless). You also can't call yourself a bladesmith if you don't forge the blades. In mass produced knives the touted "benefits" are just marketing phrases.

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I'm not exactly an expert, but as I understand it after you get the (stainless) steel to austenitizing temperature you just let it air cool for full hardness as opposed to carbon steels that require a fast quench for example in oil. What this means is that if you try to forge it you have only a very, very short window before the steel again starts to become too hard to work.

You can forge plenty of air hardening stainless steels in an open furnace and even pattern weld with them, (by excluding oxygen), you just need to be aware of the temperature window you are working at and be aware that once forged the material will need to be heat cycled and then annealed before heat treatment. Which can be a much more lengthy process with stainless than carbon. So if your doing mono stainless, forging would be the least time/ cost effective way to do it on small batches, unless you really needed to for what ever reason.

Thanks guys!

orangehero said:

I'm not exactly an expert, but as I understand it after you get the (stainless) steel to austenitizing temperature you just let it air cool for full hardness as opposed to carbon steels that require a fast quench for example in oil. What this means is that if you try to forge it you have only a very, very short window before the steel again starts to become too hard to work.

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WillC said:

You can forge plenty of air hardening stainless steels in an open furnace and even pattern weld with them, (by excluding oxygen), you just need to be aware of the temperature window you are working at and be aware that once forged the material will need to be heat cycled and then annealed before heat treatment. Which can be a much more lengthy process with stainless than carbon. So if your doing mono stainless, forging would be the least time/ cost effective way to do it on small batches, unless you really needed to for what ever reason.

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Ruso said:

Is there any real live difference in a forged blade from the bar vs cut one from the sheet. Given that all other things like HT and grind are done properly?

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Start with thick enough stock, and you can get the same kinds of geometries as for forged blades (except you will probably weld on integral bolsters). Laminated blades? Start with laminated stock. Ditto for fancy damascus. (OK, those laminated/damascus billets have been forged before they get to the knifemaker, but so has sheet steel.) Some geometries are easier to do by stock removal, and some by forging. Note that forged blades are partly made by stock removal anyway.

So what differences can there be? Surface - if you want forge scale left on the blade, get a forged blade.

It's true that plenty of cheap stamped blades are garbage. But that results from them being garbage, not from the way they're made. People can make garbage knives by forging, too.

Is it not true that most quality stamped stainless has good heat treatment? In the 1950's advances in HT made stainless better. Now with SS even more advanced would not excellent geometry and grind produce a functional cutting blade in say AEB-L & other quality SS?

My favorite knives are forged carbons, however most people prefer stainless, seems to me that the stamped SS is better now than it ever has been. As with carbon all stainless is not created equal, pay more & get the step up in quality.

Most people buy cheap SS wt. pull through sharpeners when they won't cut anymore they buy another cheap stainless.

Most people buy cheap SS wt. pull through sharpeners when they won't cut anymore they buy another cheap stainless.

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A "Made in China" 7" 'gyuto' here only costs about 1USD.