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CouteauQuest

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:dazed::dazed:Hi folks,

I've been reading many of your comments for a few days, and I'm amazed at the level of knowledge on this forum!
Can you guys help put me on the right path to finding a great kitchen knife?
I know this question is... dull, but we all have to start somewhere!
My birthday is in a couple of weeks, and my wife has given me the green light to purchase a proper kitchen knife. The budget is $200 and preferably something that is available on Amazon (prime if possible), though not imperative.
I've been on a crash course, digging through forums and reading reviews for a week, and I'm finding myself overwhelmed with information and not sure how to separate the good advice from the bad.


Here are my answers to the newb-questionnaire:

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Leaning towards a Gyuto (seems to be the most versatile) - also considering Nakiri

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Interested in Japanese, but open to either.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
210-240mm for Gyuto, 165 for Nakiri

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$200 USD

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Frequent home use.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Exclusively for prepping vegetables

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Cheap stamped stainless western chef's knife, prior to that a low-end Henckels santoku.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?
Pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use?
Push cut mostly, some slicing.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
I'm not overly concerned with aesthetics, though I do like the clean look of classic Japanese knives.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of th knife; improved balance)?
Looking for a lighter, sharper, more nimble knife.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
This may be the tricky part - I would like something very sharp, right out of the box with excellent edge retention. I am interested in learning to properly sharpen myself, though I may initially have it professionally sharpened. I want something that is relatively "low maintenance"
I don't mind wiping the knife down after each use & don't mind if it develops a patina, but don't want to have to oil it like a cast iron pan.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Yes, wood.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Not properly (I currently use a dual-step sharpener), but I want to learn proper techniques once I have a knife that is worthy.

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
I know there is no such thing as a "best knife" - I'm just looking for a great value and want to avoid overpaying simply based on brand marketing / gimmicks.


I've found a few candidates available on Amazon:


Misono UX10 Gyutou 8.2" (21cm) - Right


Yoshihiro Cutlery Hammered Damascus Gyuto Knife, 9.5-Inch


YOSHIHIRO- NSW Hammered Damascus Chef Knife Gyuto Knife Shitan handle 8.25" 210mm MADE IN JAPAN


Shun Premier Chef's Knife, 8-Inch


Kikuichi 8in Ice Hardened Molybdenum Stainless Gyuto Knife


Tojiro DP Gyutou - 8.2" (21cm)


This is by no means a definitive list - any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated at this point!

Thanks in advance.


 
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For everything you mention... unless you want a fancy look like Damascus clad, this is IT in that price range. http://epicureanedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=85650

Thanks for your quick reply! Can I get you to elaborate more on why? I presume the use of PM steel is a big factor?
Also, why the knives I listed are not a good value or fit for my needs?
Hoping to learn as much as I can in the process!
 
Thanks for your quick reply! Can I get you to elaborate more on why? I presume the use of PM steel is a big factor?
Also, why the knives I listed are not a good value or fit for my needs?
Hoping to learn as much as I can in the process!

Not that the knives you listed aren't good but rather I make the Ikeda suggestion on the fact that I have been through so many knives it isn't even funny (from $100-$2000) and have found the Ikeda PM to be superior to everything else out there....regardless of price point. In a lot of cases you pay for a fancy handle or a Damascus cladding or some other marketing hype. I have found the Ikeda (Blazen as well) to be no frill knives that hold an edge better than any carbon steel, are stainless (or at least very very stain resistant) and require basically ZERO maintenance. As long as you know what the intended purpose for the knife is )and not someone who is going to pry ice cubes out of a tray or try and split apart frozen steaks with it) the Ikeda will last you a lifetime of worry free performance.

It isn't going to turn heads, and it isn't going to stand out amongst the plethora of fancy custom made J knives that are now available but it will cut better than most and hold it's edge better than all (at least everything I've used).
 
Dels subforum, for 95 more, you could grab his 210mm line knife. Dels knives are great. Then again, that's like going from high school to the big leagues :)
 
Note... the OOB edge can vary greatly from knife to knife even amongst the same maker. Mine was ok... but that wasn't a factor because I never use the factory edge. Also I have thinned mine out drastically making it even better than when it was new.
 
I wouldn't limit myself to shopping on Amazon as far as knives go. Most sellers offer free or cheap shipping anyway.
 
Dels subforum, for 95 more, you could grab his 210mm line knife. Dels knives are great. Then again, that's like going from high school to the big leagues :)

yeah I would imagine that O-1 210 would be nice... but it still isn't going to cut or retain an edge better than the Ikeda. Though it does look better.
 
Check out Gesshin Kagero if you like the Akifusa. Supposedly the Kageros have an improved grind. I'm happy with mine.

Jon is always great to do business with.

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives-12/kitchen-knives/gesshin-kagero.html

If you do shop for the Akifusa at Epicurean Edge be aware there's also a 10% discount code for forum members.

I'm not sure it is the best recommendation for a first Japanese knife, though, because they are so brittle. A lot of people poo-poo the Tojiro DP guyto, but I think it's a good first Japanese knife with great value.

Other good choices are:
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKICarboNextSeries.html#CarboNextSeries

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/TenmiJyurakuSeries.html#AogamiSuper

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives-12/kitchen-knives/suisin/suisin-inox-western.html
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0040DGNAE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Check out Gesshin Kagero if you like the Akifusa. Supposedly the Kageros have an improved grind. I'm happy with mine.

Jon is always great to do business with.

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives-12/kitchen-knives/gesshin-kagero.html

If you do shop for the Akifusa at Epicurean Edge be aware there's also a 10% discount code for forum members.

I'm not sure it is the best recommendation for a first Japanese knife, though, because they are so brittle. A lot of people poo-poo the Tojiro DP guyto, but I think it's a good first Japanese knife with great value.

Other good choices are:
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKICarboNextSeries.html#CarboNextSeries

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/TenmiJyurakuSeries.html#AogamiSuper

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives-12/kitchen-knives/suisin/suisin-inox-western.html
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0040DGNAE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


Yeah some people say the Ikeda is brittle... I don't see it though. Then again I know how it is supposed to be used.
 
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My thinned Ikeda 240

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Q2AjelO.jpg
 
vai777, why do you call this Akifusa an Ikeda?
 
Not that the knives you listed aren't good but rather I make the Ikeda suggestion on the fact that I have been through so many knives it isn't even funny (from $100-$2000) and have found the Ikeda PM to be superior to everything else out there....regardless of price point. In a lot of cases you pay for a fancy handle or a Damascus cladding or some other marketing hype. I have found the Ikeda (Blazen as well) to be no frill knives that hold an edge better than any carbon steel, are stainless (or at least very very stain resistant) and require basically ZERO maintenance. As long as you know what the intended purpose for the knife is )and not someone who is going to pry ice cubes out of a tray or try and split apart frozen steaks with it) the Ikeda will last you a lifetime of worry free performance.

It isn't going to turn heads, and it isn't going to stand out amongst the plethora of fancy custom made J knives that are now available but it will cut better than most and hold it's edge better than all (at least everything I've used).

vai777, thank you very much - this is the type of insight I was hoping for. You seem to have zeroed in on what I believe I am looking for: no frills, sharp, great edge retention, low maintenance. Also thank you for the detailed photos. You mentioned having thinned it out drastically - would you rate the knife as highly at its original size/thickness? I understand sharpness will vary OOB - would I be better off having it professionally sharpened initially? As I mentioned, I would like to learn proper sharpening techniques, but perhaps I should learn using a lesser knife?
 
Note... the OOB edge can vary greatly from knife to knife even amongst the same maker. Mine was ok... but that wasn't a factor because I never use the factory edge. Also I have thinned mine out drastically making it even better than when it was new.
I think this might be something that OP needs to think about. If it turns out to be thin and good enough, it will be an awesome choice for the OP. But if the edge turns out to be too thick, it can be a problem because he doesn't seem to have any experience with sharpening on stones. Although it has softer SS cladding, the core is still hardened to HRC64 and can take a while to adjust the angle. I'd suggest asking EE to inspect the knife before sending it or ask them to open up the edge for you (I think you can pay extra for their sharpening/thinning service).
 
vai777, why do you call this Akifusa an Ikeda?

I believe the were originally sold as Ikeda at Epicureanedge. Now they are called Akifusa. I believe Ikeda is the parent company of Akifusa, or it may just be the name attached to the knife line (I am not sure). I'm also pretty sure the Artisan is the same knife with a slightly thicker grind. I'm also pretty sure none of these knives are made by "Ikeda" "Akifusa" or "Artisan" but rather Ichimonji Mitsuhide... and then are send off to be labeled whatever by whomever. Kind of like Ryusen / Blazen / Hattori
 
It's explained here.
Merci.
Not to hijack the thread, but how does Akifusa (Ikeda) performs without the thinning? I am looking to gift some knifes so I would not make any alterations and would like them to cut quite well.
 
vai777, thank you very much - this is the type of insight I was hoping for. You seem to have zeroed in on what I believe I am looking for: no frills, sharp, great edge retention, low maintenance. Also thank you for the detailed photos. You mentioned having thinned it out drastically - would you rate the knife as highly at its original size/thickness? I understand sharpness will vary OOB - would I be better off having it professionally sharpened initially? As I mentioned, I would like to learn proper sharpening techniques, but perhaps I should learn using a lesser knife?

If you have never sharpened before I would suggest a pro sharpening, at least the bevels will be set correctly. It won't need a resharpening for a long time... a real long time. As far as the original height I'm not sure but I suspect it was around 47 or 48mm
 
Merci.
Not to hijack the thread, but how does Akifusa (Ikeda) performs without the thinning? I am looking to gift some knifes so I would not make any alterations and would like them to cut quite well.

It performed plenty good... but I wanted to see how laser like I could get mine. I was going to buy a laser but figured why not just thin out my favorite and see where it ends up. It is thinned all the way to the spine... the kanji is completely gone.
 
Merci.
Not to hijack the thread, but how does Akifusa (Ikeda) performs without the thinning? I am looking to gift some knifes so I would not make any alterations and would like them to cut quite well.
I am actually in the same boat. I always wanted to gift a good J-knife to my mum who lives far away from me (10hrs flight) and have been looking at this for a while.
 
I am actually in the same boat. I always wanted to gift a good J-knife to my mum who lives far away from me (10hrs flight) and have been looking at this for a while.

Me 3, I have a few friends that would like a nice j knife. I am thinking get something cheap. Tune it and gift it. But not sure what.
 
I was pretty much set on Ginga. But reading this, I think superb edge retention is something average person who does not sharpen will benefit greatly. I just need to understand how thick is the geometry of Ikeda for 180mm... :-/ How does it compare to Hiromoto AS for example?
 
Of coarse any knife even with superior edge holding still needs to be sharpened. The stain resistant Ginga is a thin blade and sharpens to a keen edge. Also has a saya and wa handle.

I was thinking of trying a small Ikeda like 210mm just to try out the steel.
 
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