German Chef's vs. Western Deba?

Hey Everyone!

I'm finally getting more into knives thanks in large part to this forum. I have plans to pick up a Sakai Yusuke Swedish Stainless 240mm or a Gesshin Ginga Stainless 240 Wa-Gyuto (depending on how long their out of stock....). Now I know both of these knives are most definitely in the laser type class making me a bit unsure if I want to (or should) use them for things such as cutting up an Acorn Squash, chopping nuts + chocolate + candy, splitting/slicing a watermelon or other melons, cubing cheese etc...

I would definitely feel more comfortable not doing these with my super thin knife so I'm wondering if there is merit to the idea of picking up either a German Chef's knife (Wusthoff Classic 8') or a Western Deba (Tojiro DP 240 or 210mm). Basically I'm trying to have a very minimalist knife set up here but at the same time still get to experience a laser.

Anyhow, I'm wondering if there is/are any knives I'm overlooking for this job or which one of these two might be better for the jobs I'm interested in.

Thanks!

Hey!

I don't have a lot experience with knives so take my advice with a grain of salt (and wait for other opinions!) but for some of the task you mentioned (cutting squash.... or anything that is hard! and could damage your blades) I just got myself a big cheapo chinese cleaver for like 20$ in an asian supermarket..... I use it for any task that requires more of a "brute force" approach!

Solid, your intuition is correct. You can use a laser for those tasks but you'll likely roll/ chip the blade even if very careful. Then you won't have a sharp knife even if very thin.
Larry makes good sense. I personally I have a chef choice 8" chef knife for taking on hard foods. I save my delicate but scalpel like laser edge for veg and slicing meat.

Mucho Bocho said:

Solid, your intuition is correct. You can use a laser for those tasks but you'll likely roll/ chip the blade even if very careful. Then you won't have a sharp knife even if very thin.
Larry makes good sense. I personally I have a chef choice 8" chef knife for taking on hard foods. I save my delicate but scalpel like laser edge for veg and slicing meat.

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+1. What do you use now?

I hate using a laser for most of the tasks and just use more of a workhorse gyuto. Like masamoto ks or my mario pre makers mark. But I absolutley love lasers for water melons they are a match made in heaven

I've got a couple Wusties and Henckels left from my pre J Knife days. I use them to chop nuts and as visitors knives. I use a cheap cleaver for chocolate and crushing candy. No joy on the squash - if I cut it up someone may want to eat it...

No real need to get a Wusthoff just for the heavy stuff. I use a cheap Chinese cleaver (a #2 the way the Chinese measure them) for chopping nuts, cutting cheese etc. I've picked up my carbon-steel cleaver at a thrift store, but it looks the stainless version is available from the wok shop:
http://www.wokshop.com/HTML/products/cleavers/stainless-steel-cleaver.html
$17 shipped (if you're in the US).

So it looks like a cheap cleaver might be a good option? I don't really feel the need to own a Wust or a Western Deba those are just the first things that came to mind. I didn't initially think of a cleaver since I won't be cutting any bones but I could see how it would be a good choice in this case. Basically, anything the Sakai/Ginga couldn't handle a cleaver could easily dispatch.

Any suggestions on some good simple cleavers? Dosen't need to be fancy or expensive, just a good solid reliable cleaver. Also, I'm still open to the idea of a German or a Western Deda it just seems like maybe a cheaper cleaver might do the job just as well for less?

Your local Asian markets will have cleaver for less than $20. I got my cheap one at the "Wok Shop" in SF when I ordered a carbon wok.

If you would like a decent chef knife to use for rough tasks and practice sharpening and cheap, watch the bay for forgecraft or other vintage carbon.

Would something like an old Carbon Sabatier work? Something to work on sharpening as well as to use for rough stuff and softer things alike? Just trying to put together as much knowledge as I can here before going about spending money.

SolidSnake03 said:

Would something like an old Carbon Sabatier work? Something to work on sharpening as well as to use for rough stuff and softer things alike? Just trying to put together as much knowledge as I can here before going about spending money.

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People here love old carbon sabs. I am looking to pick on up on the cheap. However there is a lot of variation in quality based on different manufacturers.

Tojiro yodeba

[video=youtube;urIeUid1TMo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urIeUid1TMo[/video]

[video=youtube;CI7CGphzXYI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI7CGphzXYI[/video]

O_O

Wow that thing is a beast! Serious, serious knife right there. That's the Tojiro DP Western Deba right?

The Tojiro DP 240 western deba is a MONSTER. One hold of it and I knew it could slay anything in my kitchen. I had to downsize to the Tojiro DP 210 western deba which is significantly thinner but still does the job. I use a laser on Watermelons and a thick gyuto or the western deba on butternut squash type stuff. It's brute force get get past the serious wedging on the squash. But the other advice is good. You just need a cheap beater knife you don't mind abusing for the tough stuff.

SolidSnake03 said:

O_O

Wow that thing is a beast! Serious, serious knife right there. That's the Tojiro DP Western Deba right?

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Yup.

bkdc said:

The Tojiro DP 240 western deba is a MONSTER. You just need a cheap beater knife you don't mind abusing for the tough stuff.

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That's why I bought it. So I could beat the crap out of stuff.

Yeh i kinda totally want one of those now as a guilty pleasure. Are they 50/50 ground? (im a lefty) they use vg10 too?

I sharpen all Japanese knives asymmetrically. This one is like 60/40.

SolidSnake03 said:

Yeh i kinda totally want one of those now as a guilty pleasure. Are they 50/50 ground? (im a lefty) they use vg10 too?

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Here's a pic of the one I have listed in B/S/T:

Something like a small asymmetry wouldn't be too bad. I have used knives that were 60/40 and 70/30 without too much of an issue, I kinda just wanted to check and see that this one wasn't something more extreme. I did see your's in the buy and sell, the re-handle is very nice but I think that puts it out of my pricing/what I was thinking of spending....

Nice photo by the way, does show the edge well, slightly asymmetrical but nothing major which is great. Any comment on how it sharpens? Fairly easily?

SolidSnake03 said:

Something like a small asymmetry wouldn't be too bad. I have used knives that were 60/40 and 70/30 without too much of an issue, I kinda just wanted to check and see that this one wasn't something more extreme. I did see your's in the buy and sell, the re-handle is very nice but I think that puts it out of my pricing/what I was thinking of spending....

Nice photo by the way, does show the edge well, slightly asymmetrical but nothing major which is great. Any comment on how it sharpens? Fairly easily?

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I can't tell you how it sharpens up, as I've never used it. I'd expect it behaves like most VG10, and just needs attention to reducing the burr.

It's pretty easy to sharpen steel wise. What can be tricky is holding a much thicker and heavier blade at a consistent angle when you are a novice sharpener. You have no developed muscle memory and your hands fatigue easily.

+1 ^ I found that when I first tried to sharpen a cleaver aswell just the weight was big enough difference to force me to change it up.