One small step into Japanese Knife Obsession...

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Help I'm already being swallowed in.... :IMOK:

So I filled out the "Which knife should I buy" questionnaire. Hope it's not too difficult to read!

LOCATION
What country are you in?
United States

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in?
A Gyuto and a Petty but the petty might have to wait a couple more weeks until my next paycheck.

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed.

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Never tried a Wa handle. Not necessarily opposed to it though. Let’s just say Western for the Gyuto and Japanese for the Petty.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
Gyuto- 240 or 270 mm (I’ve used a 10 inch German style primarily).
Petty- 150 or 165 mm.


Do you require a stainless knife?
Preferably for the Gyuto since I’m worried about keeping it clean and dry during the dinner rush. I’d be open to trying Carbon on the Petty.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
Around $250 for the Gyuto, $150 for the Petty. Definitely no more than $400 for the both.

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Professional kitchen as well as culinary school.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for?
Fruit and veggie slicing, chopping, mincing etc. Slicing and trimming meats, filleting fish, cutting down poultry. Basically all purpose kitchen tasks with gyuto and the petty to fill in the gaps (such as brunoised shallots!) and more detailed knife work.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Cheap Mercer 10” chef’s knife. Also potentially my boning knife.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?
Mostly pinch grip. Very occasionally use the point if it feels most natural for the particular task.

What cutting motions do you primarily use?
Not really sure exactly. I would guess I most often use rocking and walking, but its hard for me to differentiate between slicing, draw cut and push cut from the written descriptions.

What improvements do you want from your current knife?
Razor sharp edge, handle should be wood not synthetic and be comfortable and not too boxy (my hands are on the smaller side). I’d likely get any knife professionally sharpened to begin with so OOTB sharpness isn’t a huge concern but ease of sharpening would be as I am a complete novice about sharpening but would embrace the challenge. Less wedging and food stickage would be a given if I’m going to drop a significant chunk of money on some Japanese knives! Aesthetics are secondary but a hammered, Kurouchi or otherwise “rustic” type finishes would be a nice touch and could decide an otherwise toss up decision.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
Yes. (Didn’t know there were any other type of cutting boards out there!) In case this was supposed to be a more specific cutting board my work and school use plastic/rubber.

Do you sharpen your own knives?
No.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives?
YES

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives?
Yes.

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
I’m also deciding between the Tojiro ITK and Mac Superior bread knife. On one hand the Tojiro is about $30 cheaper but a local knife store sells the Mac so I could actually hold that knife in person.

There are a lot of Japanese knives out there and the more research I do the more overwhelming it seems to become! Especially when it comes to all the different steels and their characteristics and balancing the trade offs and benefits of each as well as other factors such as taper, weight, hardness and finish/thinness. Hopefully I have provided enough information for someone with more knowledge than me to be able to steer me in the right direction. If anyone has more specific questions I’d be happy to answer them! Thanks for any help you guys can give me!


 
Welcome to KKF!

I'd recommend the Gesshin Kagero from Japanese Knife Imports. It's toward the top of your budget, but it is an excellent knife and meets all your requirements.

resized_img_0736.jpg


http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...esshin-kagero-240mm-powdered-steel-gyuto.html

If you call and talk to Jon Broida (the owner), I'm sure he'd be willing to make sure it has a razor edge when he ships it. You can also ask about a petty at the same time. I'd say either the Gesshin Ginga or the Gesshin Uraku.

Rick
 
Thanks for the suggestion Rick!

My main worry is that I wont be able to do a knife this expensive justice when using it. I wont be using end grain solid wood boards, I'm not as vigilant about cleaning my knives in the heat of battle as I could be (although my only experience up to this point is with cheap beater knives), and although I try to work at and be conscious of my knife skills I'm still quite new at cooking in general and my knife skills are far from top notch. Will this knife be able to withstand a little bit of unintentional "abuse" and be more forgiving of my inevitable transgressions as I improve my knife skills and learn how to sharpen on the stones? Or would I maybe be better off with something not quite so expensive as my first Japanese blade?

My other questions are more general ones: this knife is supposedly 63 or 64 Rockwell hardness. I was planning on getting a Idahone ceramic steel for honing in between sharpenings, but would that be too hard to use one on? If so is there anything I can do instead to touch up the blade in between sharpenings? Also, what are the pluses and minuses of clad (san-mai?) versus mono-steel blades? From my research I've heard some people complain about cladded blades being "muted" which admittedly I don't really know what that means. Is this not something I should worry about at this nascent stage of my Japanese knife discovery?

Sorry if this is a lot of text. I have a tendency to get quite verbose when I write anything! I appreciate any knowledge you can share with me.

Daniel
 
For a knife this hard use only a ceramic smooth rod. 12" is good for a 240mm. When I was reading your knife profile I was thinking the same knife Pensacola Tiger reccom. I have knife with same steel SRS-15. The ones Jon sells have rounded spine & choil. This is a real workhorse knife with excellent edge retention. I am the kind of guy who sharpens new knives out of the box. Not this one it was very sharp to begin with.

Don't skimp on you first gyuto, this blade is a huge improvement over your German knives. Also Jon has excellent freehand sharpening vids. on line. Call him I think the Gesshin Kageru is an excellent choice. You can get a cherry stainless gyuto & learn how to keep it razor sharp from the same dude.

When you learn freehand you will be able to touch up your knife on a splash & go stone at work. I like the Shapton Pro 2K. Using a ceramic rod is a light touch & angle is important, same as last on your stone or just a hair higher. Also when you sharpen a knife it will get trained to your style which makes touch ups a piece of cake.
 
I really liked the Misono Swedish Steel Petty... it'll run you about $80. Take the remainder and get yourself a Gessin Ginga from Jon at JKI.
 
So I went to a local Japanese knife shop (Bernal Cutlery in SF) and looked at 3 of their knives: an Ohishi VG5, Sakai Takayuki Grand Cheff, and the Ashi Hamono (which actually is the same knife as the Gesshin Ginga). I really liked the Ashi knife as the grind was notable thinner which will be nice as I wont have to thin it later after I sharpen it more.

I'm also still looking at the Gesshin Kanseko as suggested in this thread and that also is a very enticing option. The people I talked to today didn't seem that keen on PM steels in general but I'm going to have to do more research on that.

Thanks to those who made suggestions and keep them coming!
 
FWIW, the standard ashi-hamono line and gesshin ginga are not the same... hrc/HT is different, level of F&F is different, and some profiles are unique to us
 
Thanks for clearing that up. Didn't intend to pass on any false information. Would you mind sharing what improvements/changes you made to the knives and what the benefits of such changes are?
 
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