Heavier gyuto - Heiji SS or Kato?

Looking at these two knives to complement my gengetsu and saji r2, which are both scary thin behind the edge. Which would you choose?

Kato and Heiji are pretty different knives. Having owned them both, I personally prefer Heiji alot for the work that I do. But if you just want a super heavy powerful knife maybe Kato is a better contrasting knive to Gengetsu.

Are you looking for a heavier knife that cuts similar to the Gengetsu or Saji, or do you want a heavier knife that you can use when you don't want to damage the thin edges of the Gengetsu/Saji?

Both the Kato and Heiji are also thin behind the edge, but they do get thicker quicker. They are also completely different than each other like Labor of Love mentioned. I wouldn't consider either one more durable than the Gengetsu however (I don't own a Saji). All three require some care and caution during use due to thinness and brittle/hard steel.

If you want something to beat on a bit when you don't want to risk damage to your Gengetsu/Saji, I would not recommend either. If you just want a beefier gyuto, I would honestly buy both, or borrow them and see what you prefer because they are each so unique. Personally I prefer the Kato for cutting ability and versatility. BUT, the SS cladding on the Heiji (compared to the super reactive Kato cladding) could sway my vote in certain environments. Also, I find the Heiji easier to maintain in terms of thinness behind the edge and stock geometry due to the bevels. The Kato requires a lot of thinning from nearly the spine down to maintain it's magic after a lot of use.

I own two Heijis, two Katos and one Gengetsu and used to own a different Gengetsu. All of which are some of my favorite knives I have used.

Thanks for the responses guys; helped clear things up a bit. Johnny, I'm looking at similarly performing knives that get thicker a little bit quicker so both really fit the bill. I'll take a good hard look at the kato, but may end up buying both knives and selling one after some testing.

watanabe pro

I've got 3 Kato - great stuff - and this thread has me thinking about a Heiji for my next buy. However, Panda (master of few words) could you elaborate on the Watanabe? I don't know about these.

You might also want to consider stainless cladd Itinomonn knives from Maxim.

If I'm not mistaken, Watanabe's PRO line is limited in length by 180mm, so anything longer isn't going to be SS cladded. He uses asymmetric lens geometry which isn't which offers a lot of heft and very good food release, so in terms of cutting performance his knives are great. Might worth dropping Shinichi email and asking what he can offer.

icanhaschzbrgr said:

Might worth dropping Shinichi email and asking what he can offer.

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Who's Shinichi, by the way?

Hope it relates to the thread: for what it's worth, I have 2 Itinomonn, a nakiri and butcher. I think they're fine for the price, but still fairly inconsitent and uneven. At this point I wouldn't move for a bigger knife. Many other options beyond the usual.

Who's Shinichi, by the way?

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Watanabe. Shinichi Watanabe

Ruso said:

Watanabe. Shinichi Watanabe

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Thanks. Not on a 1st-name basis yet, you see.

Watanabe s prices are about to go up in September , just heads up


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icanhaschzbrgr said:

You might also want to consider stainless cladd Itinomonn knives from Maxim.

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Itinomonn are much thinner than Kato/Heiji and thinner than Gengetsu as well.

panda said:

watanabe pro

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interesting; I need to check for some choil shots and read some reviews. definitely a contender

icanhaschzbrgr said:

You might also want to consider stainless cladd Itinomonn knives from Maxim.

If I'm not mistaken, Watanabe's PRO line is limited in length by 180mm, so anything longer isn't going to be SS cladded. He uses asymmetric lens geometry which isn't which offers a lot of heft and very good food release, so in terms of cutting performance his knives are great. Might worth dropping Shinichi email and asking what he can offer.

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I think you're confusing the watanabe pro line with the watanabe standard line.

Any seconds on Watanabe Pro? LofL? They look good, and the prices are reasonable.

Any idea what steal is used?

Asteger said:

Any seconds on Watanabe Pro? LofL? They look good, and the prices are reasonable.

Any idea what steal is used?

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Me and Panda can tell you all about Watanabe. Brainsausage borrowed mine for awhile as well. really hard hrc62-64 blue 2 steel, great retention, great asymetric grind good for food release, very nice flat profile...Probably the 2nd heaviest gyuto Ive ever used after Kato definitely for people who like heavier knives. F&F is mediocre and the handles options arent really that good. Still 5 days left before the price increase, a 240mm for $300 plus shipping is a good deal.

Well, I had a look and see the price increase is 15% in Sept. Pulled the trigger: 210mm gyuto with the Keyaki handle, as the stock ones look a bit crap. Also inquired about a ho/magnolia saya, so we'll see what he says. Thanks for the tips.

it's a beastly knife and you wont need to sharpen very often

panda said:

it's a beastly knife and you wont need to sharpen very often

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Ah, man! Now you tell me. I like to sharpen!

Can anyone compare watanabe's and kato's grinds and cutting ability for me? It seems like the watanabe was popular a few years back so I haven't been able to find any direct comparisons

James said:

Can anyone compare watanabe's and kato's grinds and cutting ability for me? It seems like the watanabe was popular a few years back so I haven't been able to find any direct comparisons

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Its really difficult to compare Kato workhorse gyutos to any other gyutos because they are extremely unique. Theyre nearly as thick as Debas at the spine then taper down to the edge, while being very thin behind the edge. So what you have is this heavy, powerful knife that falls effortlessly through all food. Watanabe will weigh less but still be a heavy gyuto, it will have a flatter profile and it wont be nearly as thin behind the edge. Watanabe wont fall through food as effortlessly as Kato but is still a good cutter, instead Watanabe will have better food release.

Great! that helps a lot. Kato, here I come!

labor of love said:

Its really difficult to compare Kato workhorse gyutos to any other gyutos because they are extremely unique. Theyre nearly as thick as Debas at the spine then taper down to the edge, while being very thin behind the edge. So what you have is this heavy, powerful knife that falls effortlessly through all food. Watanabe will weigh less but still be a heavy gyuto, it will have a flatter profile and it wont be nearly as thin behind the edge. Watanabe wont fall through food as effortlessly as Kato but is still a good cutter, instead Watanabe will have better food release.

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This is very well stated. If it helps, the Gengetsu knives continue to be among my favorites (although honestly I wouldn't say they are crazy thin behind the edge), and I absolutely love the Kato workhorse. Transition from one to the other is easy.

Great thread guys and very informative commentary. Own a couple of Katos in W#2 and absolutely love the knives. My 240mm is probably my favorite knife at the moment. I've been considering a Heiji and was wondering if anyone can elaborate on what differentiates the knives from Kato's at a more granular level. Grind comparison, edge profile etc. Thanks in advance!

Hey Chip, Heiji profile has a tad more curve to it than the wh#2 Kato's, but I still find it to be completely comfortable for push cutting motions. Heiji grind has some concavity to it and the grind is very very easy to maintain or tweak to your liking as the huge bevels on heiji gyutos almost feel like training wheels when it comes to thinning.

Awesome, thanks labor. Very helpful. Been thinking about adding a new 270 to the block and was thinking it could be a good excuse to check out a Heiji. Given your proclivities (which I think may be fairly similar to my own) in terms of knife construction, and high opinion of the maker, think I may just go ahead and pull the trigger.

Out of curiosity, do you happen to know if there are major differences between the Gesshin Heiji and Heiji's standard offering? Just looking at the pics, it seems like there may be more of a convex final grind (or at least a relieved shoulder) on the Gesshin vs. standard Heiji.
Sorry, final edit. Do you notice any wedge issues with the Heiji as I would sort of expect that with a flat ground edge bevel that is so tall.

Just use the search option on the site here, theres already like a dozen pages just on Heiji questions, choil shots, etc etc etc. I dont really have all the answers to your questions but I will say Heiji shouldnt wedge at all if the geometry is maintained over time.

Cool, thanks. Did use the search which is what lead me to this thread Will see what else I can dig up. Appreciate the color