Starting over, Knives and Stones advice?

Hi Everyone!

INTRO
Alright so some of you have seen me around here a bit commenting here and there on some pretty knives, handles and other things. I have become very interested in this site as well as a few other knife forums and in my excitement got ahead of myself in terms of knife purchasing.
Truth is, I'm out of my league and I recognize it so I want to step back and start over a bit because I was just throwing money at something thinking it would make me better/more skilled/knowledgeable/whatever.

THE SITUATION
Anyhow, here's the deal, I have sharpened a knife twice (Kohetsu Blue #2 210mm) and in the process made some fairly visible scrapes along the blade. I didn't do a pretty job but I got it sharp enough to shave my arm smoothly. I currently have a Shapton Pro 1k stone and a 5k stone as well as a cheap flattener from Korin (the black/grey one) as well as a stone holder. I also own a Sakai Yusuke 240mm Wa-Gyuto Stainless Steel Extra Hardened that I realized after a use or two is too much for me. I'll be selling it because I know right now (and for a while probably) my skills aren't anywhere near what the knife needs or deserves. I'm too afraid of marking the hell out of the thing sharpening it myself. Also, selling it will allow me to build back up from the bottom so to speak, I want to enjoy the experience and grow into new knives instead of just jumping ahead of what I can handle.

HELP!!
I figured I would come to you guys asking for advice. Where should I start this whole thing over again?
Are the Shapton's worth keeping or should I look at something like Dave Martell's Core Set?
What would be a good 240mm gyuto to start with?
Is it worth holding onto the Kohetsu 210mm and using that instead of switch to a 240mm? (I find the 210mm great, super thin and feels awesome to cut with but a bit smaller than I would like)
For a new guy is Carbon the best option to learn on? (I'm quite a clean person at home and do take care of my knives)

BIO
For reference, I'm LEFT HANDED and just simply enjoy cooking at home. I want a knife that I can learn with yet isn't totally terrible (aka F&F isn't poor). I slice, chop and mostly push cut with no rock chopping. Poly restaurant style boards right now, maybe end grain later on. I'm open to either handle type but have used exclusively Westerns for my home cooking life (just never owned a WA before the Sakai)

BUDGET
I plan to sell at least the Sakai so I do have some money to play with. I'm budgeting maybe $150 or so for stones (assuming it would be wise to go with something else than the Shapton's). Basically I'm considering the Martell started set. Knife budget is pretty open because again the Sakai will probably be sold as well as some $ from my extra pay check this past month. Bear in mind though this will be a learner knife so nothing crazy.... (no Nenox's)

Anyhow, hope this isn't too much to ask, just hoping you guys can get me set on the right track after getting into the deep end a bit too fast. Thanks and happy Labor Day everyone!

Maybe I'm missing something. The 210 is too small but you're selling the Sakai, a great knife which is a 240. If your scratching up your knives on the Shaptons ( good splash and goes ), you'll scratch them on a different stones, even if different stones might give you more feedback. I would concentrate on technique with what you have before investing more money.

If we all had to take a test to determine what level of quality knives we were worthy of, I would probably have a wall of Cutcos. You like the Saiki? Keep the Saiki.

Scuffing a knife is part of learning. It WILL NOT ruin a knife. Unscuffing is also part of learning. 15 min with a couple grits of wet/dry sandpaper and you can graduate that class.

I think you're overthinking the whole thing. Keep the sharp part down. Don't hold the shiny end. Use the stones you have - others do. There is almost nothing you can do that will ruin a knife. Don't be afrad to punt to Jon, Dave, Korin or any other sharpener for help.

Some good advice has already been offered, so I will just add this ... Keep the Yusuke. It's an excellent 240. Light and nimble. I started on a 210, and the 240 Yusuke feels perfectly controllable. It's a real pleasure.

No need to sell your stones or update them either. If anything, work on your knife skills. Slowly and methodically. It's all meant to be fun, too! Remember that

Thanks everyone, I do really appreciate the insight! I was concerned about messing up or damaged my nicer knife (Sakai Yusuke) but it looks like this is largely unfounded. I would definitely be open to sending it off to Jon or someone if after a while I'm just not happy with where I get it.

I think my best option might be to just sit back and take my time more on this. I do want to learn and continue to develop my sharpening ability. I'm happy to hear that my set up right now is just fine regarding the Shapton 1k and 5k.

I agree about the 240mm being perfectly controllable. It does feel great in hand, very light and definitely super thin. Anyhow, thanks everyone, I'll take this stuff to heart and give it some good thought.

It was very helpful for me to just get this out there and have a community to bounce ideas off of regarding what I'm thinking and feeling. Thanks again everyone!

If you have any other suggestions please let me know!

If you prefer the 240 over the 210 I wouldn't sell it. Stick with the 240, sell the 210 if you need to generate some cash.

Same for the shaptons. Keep those, maybe think about adding a lower grid version (220 or 320) to your arsenal. Use that one when you either ship your blade or end up sharpening a completely dull knife....If you don't feel comfortable starting your journey into knive sharpening with your Sakai, try hunting for some old carbon at the local flea market and use them for practice until you feel comfortable enough.

It's been said but I'll reiterate. It is SO easy to remove scratches from a blade. A few minutes with some wet and dry sandpaper and your done. In a nutshell pick a grit low enough to remove the scratches and work your way up through the grits until your knife is shiny.

Your stones are fine your knives are fine keep what you have and keep practicing !

Thanks again so much for all the help on this. Glad to know my initial stone and knife choices weren't too bad. Just out of curiosity, do you guys have any experience with the Old Hickory Knives sold by Ontario Knife Company?
http://www.ontario-knife-store.com/old-hickory-knives/
I know they have sold reviews on Amazon and was considering getting one of the Butcher knives to use as both sharpening practice and as a "Big Ol' Beater Knife" for Squash and Watermelon etc...

Don't really want to take my Sakai to an Acorn Squash and figure for such a low price the Old Hickory might be a solid choice? The added bonus of a carbon practice knife might be nice too....

I really like lasery knives for hard squash. A few years back I had to cut a couple of gallons of 2" batons of butternut squash to pickle every few days and my Gesshin Ginga was the go to knife for that. The thinness gives it very little chance to wedge up on you, just don't twist. Same goes for melons.

I found it super helpful to sharpie up a beater knife and repeatedly practice on a medium grit stone, focusing on angle control and properly sharpening the tip. Keep going until it feels natural on both sides, heel to tip. Check out Jon's videos on YouTube if you haven't already, the whole knife sharpening playlist is great.

You've got a nice setup.

Thanks, I have been watching Jon's stuff and so far it seems fairly impressive and extensive. Great stuff!

Interesting to hear that about melons and squash, maybe it's just the mental fear/image of me snapping a laser type knife in one of those foods. Could be an ill-founded fear?

No problems with melons that's for sure.

SolidSnake03 said:

Thanks, I have been watching Jon's stuff and so far it seems fairly impressive and extensive. Great stuff!

Interesting to hear that about melons and squash, maybe it's just the mental fear/image of me snapping a laser type knife in one of those foods. Could be an ill-founded fear?

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Most people have the misconception that you need a thick, heavy blade to cut squash and melon, when, as Dardeau has said, the opposite is true. Just don't twist the blade when it's in the product.

The squash issue is usually a reference to smaller [kabocha ?] Japanese squash which are pretty hard, while you could snap a blade in an acorn I guess, seems like that would be harder to do than cutting the squash itself.
I'd recommend adding a stropping set up, my preference is rock hard felt & Diamond spray.
A HD knife is always a good option, what about swap meets, thrift stores, etc?

HD knife? What does the HD stand for?

Also, thanks for helping quell that fear of mine. Im still considering selling the Sakai but solely for monetary reasons now since the kohetsu does work fine, just a little smaller than i like. Yet, i would get much less for it than the Sakai so itll probably stay.

SolidSnake03 said:

HD knife? What does the HD stand for?

Also, thanks for helping quell that fear of mine. Im still considering selling the Sakai but solely for monetary reasons now since the kohetsu does work fine, just a little smaller than i like. Yet, i would get much less for it than the Sakai so itll probably stay.

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I think mikemac is referring to a Heavy Duty knife, or "beater" knife that is abused, rather than used. Cheap and can be thrown away if broken.

I had to re-read Mike's last post as well about HD and agree it must be heavy duty. Line the knife up on squash and hit the spine with a hammer, heavy duty. In event of failure, throw it away.

Two bad things about cutting squash. First is that good knives are very strong along the plane of the blade but have little torsional strength. Twisting or prying is ill advised. Second of course is in the event you manage to open the squash, someone is going to expect you to cook and eat the d*** thing.

Got it! That does make more sense, for some reason I was thinking Heavy Density? or something along those lines. I was sort of right in that I guessed it meant a basher type knife. I definitely will shop around at a couple swap meets and or garage sales and see if I can find some older carbon something or other to use for this purpose. Worst case, if I don't find anything I like, I'm ok with spending <$20 for an Old Hickory or something from an Asian Market (see huge heavy no-name cleaver).

Great advice on the twisting and prying, I really don't ever do that style of movement as I know it's bad for the knife but sometimes (given the ingredients just described) sh$t happens so to speak. Also, I happen to LOVE SQUASH! Very few things make me feel better in fall than an Acorn Squash halved, slow cooked with brown sugar, cinnamon, nutmeg, bit of salt and pepper and a pad of butter. Extra triple bonus points if your eating it out on a deck with a fall breeze feeling and watching it steam in your hands/plate.

Ok enough of that, looks like I'm good on stones (might pick up a low grit like a 320 or something in the Shaptons someday) and my knives are fine (plan to add a cheap beater). Thanks for the help everyone, it looks like the biggest thing I really need is time and practice....and to calm down a bit! hahah