Anyone else moving toward All American Makers?

I dunno - have a lot of J-knives, but am enjoying the American makers take on them and other classic shapes. While my J-knives are resting my rotation is: HHH, Ealy, Carter, Carter, Marko, Devin, Rader, and a rehandled Japanese bread knife. Two actually one went to a charity auction where it fetched it's cost less all the work I did to it. Gotta be careful with those if you are looking for value.

I would like to try one when I get the money. I think the forged knives are fun to tinker with, the imperfection in forging,grinds etc...

The American knives I think are amazing in precision. When I am ready to stop tinkering I'll settle on something like a Marko...I think he's got the most interesting grinds and stunning handles.

I have noticed a similar trend in my personal collection, or rather what I actually use from what I own. My only real exception is Will Catcheside, it seems. My knives that I still pull out are: Rader, Harner, Harner, Carter, Rodrigue, Catcheside, in no particular order. Come to think of it, my next purchases/dream purchases will/would be another Rader, Wilburn, DT, Kramer, Burke, Bloodroot Blades (Snyder and Van Wyk) and Maumasi.

I like your list Lefty. I wish I had a little more time to use them all.

i have zero interest in ANY of the american knives.

why would the origin of the knife carry more weight than all of the other (more practical) variables?

like who is the maker (experience), what steel, profile,

Huh?

I think once you go north of $500 (for e.g. a 240 gyuto) you have some serious (Japanese) benchmarks to compare to - Shigefusa, Heiji, Yoshikane, Kato, Mizuno, Hide, Ino etc. If fancy handles/materials aren't your thing, I don't really see any reason to get a custom.

I understand the attraction of purchasing a local product, but tend to treat claims of marked superiority as bluster.

Lefty said:

My knives that I still pull out are: Rader, Harner, Harner, Carter, Rodrigue, Catcheside, in no particular order.

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How come you haven't mentioned Billipp here?

I've only had limited experience with customs, their F&F and aesthetics are real nice. Can't argue with that. It's always nice to own something exclusive as well.

As for real world performance, they fell short. Disappointingly and laughably short. Hopefully, others can change my mind in the future.

mistascoopa said:

As for real world performance, they fell short. Disappointingly and laughably short. Hopefully, others can change my mind in the future.

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Mistascoopa that's a pretty bold broad statement given your admitted limited experience with full custom knives. Curious what customs you've handled and what specifically what is it about American Knife makers that don't meet your standards?

It's kind of a salt of the earth, grass roots thing for me..... Most of the custom guy's I support, I have been fortunate enough to meet and watch work/work with. That being said I have a wide variety in the work rotation: Suissin, Miyabi custom, Tojiro, Kramer by Shun, Sakai Yasuki, HHH, Lauderjung custom, Itonomin, Gesshin Ginga.

Additionally, I have been fortunate enough to demo several customs, over the last couple of years, and the real world performance has been nothing short of stellar! IMHO

I can see owning: HHH, Ealy, Davis, Ingoglia, Scorpion Forge, Dabney, Chefcomesback, Haburn...... I'm sure I missed someone.

I would have to say I would much rather support our local knife makers!

My "huh" was in response to this:

panda said:

i have zero interest in ANY of the american knives.

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Not this, just to be clear:

citizenY said:

why would the origin of the knife carry more weight than all of the other (more practical) variables?

like who is the maker (experience), what steel, profile,

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I'll admit that my experience is somewhat limited when it comes to high-end Japanese knives, but what I have handed I thought to be quite impressive. For me it's also about the comfort/feel of a knife. Not just in hand but also in performance as well. I'm also pretty keen on the grass roots of good Ol'American made beauties. It's no secret that I'm a big fan of the American custom. I'm a huge fan boy of Delbert Ealy, as well as Andy Billipp. Makers like Devin Thomas, Joel, Ian (which I'm waiting to finally try out), Randy from HHH, Cris Anderson (also still waiting to try), Marko Tsourkan, Mario, and of course Kramer, are all producing world class works that just speak to me. I'm sure I'm forgetting others here, but man, to just say Zero interest any Any American makers it's just odd to me. Sure,I believe in traditionalism, and personal preference, but I would never just disregard talent and craft so blatantly flat out. Ew.

Yet each to their own, and I'm always pleased to see others express this openly on the forum.

Mucho Bocho said:

Mistascoopa that's a pretty bold broad statement given your admitted limited experience with full custom knives. Curious what customs you've handled and what specifically what is it about American Knife makers that don't meet your standards?

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I read the original comment as acknowledging its own limitations--only based on a few examples, not a wholesale indictment of customs.

I have yet to get a custom, or even handle one, but I found the info helpful. As my concept for what is "reasonable" or "justifiable" to pay for a knife has grown (quite significantly), I'm approaching the realm of customs, and I do truly wonder if I would find the performance worth the money.

I'm curious to hear more ideas in this thread. It also seems like the way many Japanese knives is made is quite a different process from what these small independent makers are doing.

Not being American, helps me to not have that patriotic feeling towards the US made goods. Said that, I do not have any preference in terms of where the blade is made.
Most of the American blades I am interested in are quite up high in the price and could have quite a long wait time. As somebody mentioned earlier there are some well renown Japanese made blade at this price or even slightly cheaper.
So it becomes a tough decision...

icanhaschzbrgr said:

How come you haven't mentioned Billipp here?

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I knew I was forgetting someone! Haha. Because I was sneaking in a peek at the forums, and I forgot. I still love my Billipp. You want flat out cutting fun? Call Andy, and he'll hook you up!

panda said:

i have zero interest in ANY of the american knives.

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If it's hunting knife, folding knife, combat knife/ western-style kitchen knives, then it's good to be American-made. Traditional Japanese style knives? NO. I prefer them to be made by some traditional Japanese artisans, each knife they make has a character.:no: I'm more proud of Japanese products.

LKH9 said:

If it's hunting knife, folding knife, combat knife/ western-style kitchen knives, then it's good to be American-made. Traditional Japanese style knives? NO. I prefer them to be made by some traditional Japanese artisans, each knife they make has a character.:no: I'm more proud of Japanese products.

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Can you tell me if you have used any of the custom makers? If so which maker?


Sent from my iPhone using Kitchen Knife Forum

I don't really care unless the maker does something that I like. I've picked up some Carters though I'd been reluctant for a while, and am taking a few risks on Butch Harner and Cris Anderson, looking for something a little different in which I can participate actively without cramping up the maker's style too much.

Mucho Bocho said:

Mistascoopa that's a pretty bold broad statement given your admitted limited experience with full custom knives. Curious what customs you've handled and what specifically what is it about American Knife makers that don't meet your standards?

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As I stated, I was speaking only in my own limited experience with customs, not custom makers as a whole. Believe me, I was not trying to be bold. If I was, I would have blasted some makers, which would have been foolish of me with my limited experience with their knives. I also stated that I am hopeful to run into some great ones in the future.

It is not so much that they didn’t meet my standard, but the Japanese standard that I am readily familiar with. It’s one thing for you to test cut a few ingredients in your home kitchen, it’s another thing for me to ask a knife to perform in the maw of pro use, day in and day out, where shortcomings and flaws are more readily identifiable.

Also, as with all things knife related, personal taste is taken into account as well.

I dig the grass roots view on this subject, which is why my interest will always be there.

My kitchen knives are all American made but that is not intentional or I should say not the primary motive for getting them.
My thoughts are that mass produced knives will not have the refinements or fit and finish you get with a custom knife made by one person.
I know that is kind of a broad statement and can be incorrect in some situations.
I currently own knives by Butch Harner, Delbert Ealy and Mike Davis.
Each of these were made with the focus being to make them just right instead of good enough like you see with mass produced knives.

Three killer makers, Mark, that, frankly I would put up against any knife maker in the world! JUST SAYIN!!!

I would pick American made any day of the week if i only could afford it

These American makers many of them already mentioned make the most amazing "true" damascus steel in a super high grade, they also understand and take the time to properly heat-treat their steel pre and after hardening in a controlled way to make the best of the steel.

I cant say the same about many of the Japanese makers... microshipping and shipping of the blade seems common and acceptable among these?
How many of the japanese artisan make "true" damascus anymore" as far i understand most of them buy factory readymade cheap damascus bars and forge this and call it handmade?

Read an article about a swedish businessman selling japanese knives that where so extraordinary... but one should always have an extra set of cheap knives every time you cut something hard?

Laminated blades i dont get
why would i use a knife in the kitchen that can not withstand bending?
the only benefit is when it needs thinning? how often is that? once a year, every 5 year?

maybe a bit harsh but it´s how i feel:angel2:

Sabaki said:

I would pick American made any day of the week if i only could afford it

These American makers many of them already mentioned make the most amazing "true" damascus steel in a super high grade, they also understand and take the time to properly heat-treat their steel pre and after hardening in a controlled way to make the best of the steel.

I cant say the same about many of the Japanese makers... microshipping and shipping of the blade seems common and acceptable among these?
How many of the japanese artisan make "true" damascus anymore" as far i understand most of them buy factory readymade cheap damascus bars and forge this and call it handmade?

Read an article about a swedish businessman selling japanese knives that where so extraordinary... but one should always have an extra set of cheap knives every time you cut something hard?

Laminated blades i dont get
why would i use a knife in the kitchen that can not withstand bending?
the only benefit is when it needs thinning? how often is that? once a year, every 5 year?

maybe a bit harsh but it´s how i feel:angel2:

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I started writing a reply but there is so much nonsense in this post I gave up.

I don't have the experience necessary with American made knives to really comment. I've had knives from 2 of the makers on this forum and they have really impressed me.

Some of the comments do make me wonder though if people are making fair comparisons. The price of a piece reflects the standing of the maker and the time that has gone into the knife.

It's hardly fair to be comparing knives of vastly differing price ranges. $2k+ US made custom should not be directly compared to a $600 J-knife; comparisons between Japanese made knives and US made knives are only really valid within the same price range.

Both of the U.S. knifes I've owned had noticeable shortcomings when compared to J-knives which were significantly more expensive, but compared favourably to ones in the same price range.

My take is that Japanese makers are more efficient and can offer a competitive product more cheaply. With the exception of makers like Marko who are underselling their work, you generally get more for your money with a Japanese knife.

I'd really appreciate it if anyone who's transitioned from J-knives to almost entirely US made knives would state which J-knives they've owned/ used in the past, how they compared and the relative prices.

I see the appeal of selecting the profile, dimensions, steel, Damascus pattern, handle material and the improved F+F, but I'm having difficulty imagining a blade which is functionally superior to a high end J-knife.

^ This guy gets it.

I'm not transitioning to American, I just happen to be starting there.

Sabaki said:

These American makers many of them already mentioned make the most amazing "true" damascus steel in a super high grade

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If that's the case I'd appreciate details, I've always been curious to try real authentic Damascus steel; I was under the impression that it was a lost art.

I didn't know any of the makers here made "true" Damascus steel. I was under the impression that everyone was using pattern welding to create the Damascus effect.

Timthebeaver said:

^ This guy gets it.

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Well... 2k Devin or 2k high end J-knife... i would easy pick Devin because i now i have a durable knife i would dare to use
same goes for 5-600$ range seven days a week

I´ll give J-knifes cred for their edgegeometry but their set to go by quantity instead of quality really gets to me

Original Damask, was a crucible steel, something like what has been more modernly recreated by the name of wootz. Best name ever. Wooootz.