What will I need?

Hey everybody! This is my first post so before I get to my questions, I'll give a brief background story about myself.
I am a 23 year old cook entering into the fine dining world! I took my first job at 15 washing dishes at a local fish fry restaurant and in the past 8 years I've worked my way up from a dishwasher to a Line cook. I've worked in a few different restaurants with much success. Although they were chain restaurants I was able to gain experience in several different styles of cooking as well as learn every station type you would see in casual restaurants. Recently I have been hired to work under a couple world renowned chefs in a 4 star resort, so I came here seeking advice and tips to be successful under these chefs. I have no formal training, and I did not attend any culinary institute but I am overjoyed to be taking the next step into my career and enter into fine dining.

Okay, onto my question.

This resort is the first place I will have worked with legit chefs, and not just managers who may or may not have "formerly" been chefs. This resort does require that I own my own knives, and I'm not sure exactly what types of knives to buy to start with.
I am certain I will need a Paring knife, a chefs knife, a utility knife, and a bread knife, as well as a honing steel, and wetstone, and a bag.
Is there any other knife I should have for day 1? Also I have been looking at the Shun Classic series. Should I believe the hype or are they overrated? If so, could you guys recommend a nkife maker in the neighborhood of the same price range with better quality?

Thanks!

You should fill out the "Which Knife Should I Buy Questionnaire", it will give us a better idea of your needs to give you some recommendations. My guess is that most users here won't push you towards Shun, but more towards craftsman-made Japanese knives (assuming that you are interested in Japanese knives).

If you are interested in Japanese knives, consider that you should learn to sharpen on Japanese waterstones. These knives do not respond well to a honing steel in the same way that German and other knives made from softer steel do. We can point you to some excellent resources on this.

I'll be the second to tell you to disregard Shun. We have more options than ever, at reasonable prices, with no more pull towards Shun. You'll need to give these guys your preferences and price range and they'll point you in exactly the right direction. What I will tell you is that you are unlikely to need any knives beyond a 240 gyuto, 150ish petty or funayuki, and a small inexpensive paring knife. As tempting as it is to look at all of the more single-task knives, seriously just focus on affording the best gyuto and petty that you can.

Beyond that, you should have decent tweezers from JB Prince, a small offset, good shoes, good looking pants, and, probably a weeks worth of a traditionally-sleeved chef coat.

Just a home cook here but started with the popular German knives, then Shun, then various Japanese knives. Another vote for looking elsewhere than Shun. My first gyuto was a Gesshin Ginga 210mm and love it. But the survey will help determine what is best for you. Welcome!

Nothing wrong with learning on the job, many have done that without schooling.

Most important is a quality Gyuto as you will use that the most, don't skimp get a good one. Also a wetstone & hone your sharpening skills. This is a good site for that. Bester 1200 great medium stone. Couple knives Gesshin Kagero great workhorse blade. Gesshin Ginga a lighter lazor type knife. Both these knives are in Shun territory price wise, but will blow the Shuns out of the water.

Call Jon at Japanese Knife Imports he can be a big help on knives & sharpening skills.

LOCATION
What country are you in? USA



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? Chef Knife and Paring knife for sure, might need a bread knife.

Are you right or left handed? Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? Japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? 8 inches or bigger for the chefs knife, no pref for paring

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) yes

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? I have around 600 dollars US to get knives, a whetstone, and a bag



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? Professional

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) I imagine I will be doing mostly prep work for the first major period of time in my new job, slicing vegetables and fruit mostly.

What knife, if any, are you replacing? This will be my first professional set up.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)Rocking, chopping, walking

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.) This knife needs to hold a razor sharp edge for at least an 8 hour work day, I don't abuse my tools, but it can't be made of glass either. beauty is a big plus but not necessary.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)? If someone finds me a knife in my price range that is a steel supermodel I would have a hard time passing it up, that being said I will be working in a large resort kitchen, and I wouldn't want to carry around a bag of equipment that basically says "steal me" on the side

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?I love heavy knives with a full tang and wood grip.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)? Laser sharp out of the box would be nice. don't really care about food release.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? I will for sure be able to restore my blades at least once a week, but things happen. 2 weeks retention would be preferable.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)yes, wood and synthetic.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.) I want to learn as much as I can

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)I will need a whetstone for sure and maybe a honing steel if it fits into my budget after the blades the bag and the stone.

I'm a fan of the Tojiro DP line. Affordable, durable (never seen one chip), easy to sharpen, and with good edge retention. They run a little fat by Japanese standards but if you currently like heavier Western knives, it shouldn't be a tough transition. Plus you can always thin them out. A 240 gyuto, a 150 petty, and a Victorinox paring knife would run you around $160 altogether.

It's nice to have a good bread knife but almost every kitchen I've been in has at least one floating around. Same with honing steels - the quality/condition might depend but many, especially for a big resort I'd imagine, will have a few stashed around the kitchen. So I don't know if that's something I would invest in from the start.

With stones I'd get a coarse (300-500 grit) and medium (800-2k) stone. There are a lot of recommendations out there but it can depend on whether you care about having to soak a stone for 30 minutes (or permanently if you'd like) or if you want something you can just throw water on and start sharpening.

Thanks for the quick replies, everybody.

I picked out my 3 main knives.
Still deciding on some accessories.

240mm Masakage Yuki Gyuto - $230

150mm Masakagi Yuki Petty - $150

80mm Takayuki Damascus Petty - $75

Probably going to go with 400/2000 Naniwa wet stones - $100 for the pair

This leaves me a little wiggle room for a Roll and Blade guards.

Just a thought... A lot of people assume you need a good paring knife, but why?
Will there be any tasks you could be doing that you would need a quality paring knife?

Personally I'd get a inexpensive victrinox Parer and spend the $$ on something else like stones.
Unless you have to bone out quail then get a nice one

You don't need a 400/2000 grit stone right now. I would suggest 1k and 5-6k. Plastic blade guards will scratch your knives all to hell. Either line them with felt or just buy sayas. For knives, have you looked at JKI? The 240mm Gonbei is a great knife that I recommend to people who want something nicer on the workhorse side and is just over what I would call starter or entry level. http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com.../gonbei-240mm-hammered-damascus-wa-gyuto.html

JDA_NC said:

I'm a fan of the Tojiro DP line. Affordable, durable (never seen one chip), easy to sharpen, and with good edge retention. They run a little fat by Japanese standards but if you currently like heavier Western knives, it shouldn't be a tough transition. Plus you can always thin them out. A 240 gyuto, a 150 petty, and a Victorinox paring knife would run you around $160 altogether.

It's nice to have a good bread knife but almost every kitchen I've been in has at least one floating around. Same with honing steels - the quality/condition might depend but many, especially for a big resort I'd imagine, will have a few stashed around the kitchen. So I don't know if that's something I would invest in from the start.

With stones I'd get a coarse (300-500 grit) and medium (800-2k) stone. There are a lot of recommendations out there but it can depend on whether you care about having to soak a stone for 30 minutes (or permanently if you'd like) or if you want something you can just throw water on and start sharpening.

Click to expand...

disagree on the stones a bit. why would he need a 300-500 grit stone?? seems way to coarse. i have those but would only need that to repair a chip. A 1k/6k would be the way to go. you can still repair chips with a 1k if needed, but really if he is staying up on sharpening (he should) then mostly going to need the 6k for touchups and then the 1k for sharpening.

My thinking with the coarse/medium grit recommendation is that a lot of the starter knives really benefit from some sort of thinning. And it's just a good habit to get into early - I know that I personally have a couple knives that I never thinned once over the course of 1-2 years heavy use/sharpening, and it's a monumental effort now to get them into decent shape. I don't think I'm alone on that. Once you get past being afraid to scratch up your knives, they can start to perform better. The Masakage Yuki definitely has some thick shoulders out of the box and benefits heavily from some thinning. The Tojro DP's do as well.

And I think a medium grit stone is more forgiving to technique in the beginning, compared to a 5-6k grit stone, it's quicker, and is perfectly serviceable as a final edge in a production kitchen (you can even strop on news paper if you want it a little finer). Especially if you are going to be using a steel/ceramic hone during shifts.

dankchef said:

Thanks for the quick replies, everybody.

I picked out my 3 main knives.
Still deciding on some accessories.

240mm Masakage Yuki Gyuto - $230

150mm Masakagi Yuki Petty - $150

80mm Takayuki Damascus Petty - $75

Probably going to go with 400/2000 Naniwa wet stones - $100 for the pair

This leaves me a little wiggle room for a Roll and Blade guards.

Click to expand...

Dunno if it got mentioned already, but are there any hygienic regulations (like HACCP in Europe) a professional chef/restaurant owner has to abide to in the USA? Would be a shame if you bring your Masakage to your new workplace and find out on your first day that they don't allow non-stainless knives and wooden handles...

In that case it may be wise to get some feedback from your new employer, if there any regulations you have to abide to before you spend 230 bucks on that masakage gyuto.

I would also consider stone in the 1k and 4-6k range to start. Knives the price range you are looking at will respond well to the higher grit for edge refinement. A course stone will save you time on serious work but can get you in trouble quickly when learning.

If you consider JKI, the Gesshin Gonbei (already mentioned) and Gesshin Uraku are a good place to start and pretty affordable. The Gesshin Ginga is a step up and a bit thinner. Jon is super helpful and can get you pointed in the right direction if you have any other questions.

Best of luck!