MY FIRST KNIFE FOR HOME

Hi everyone, i'm looking for my first knife, i read the questionnaire...

What country are you in?
ITALY

What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
CHEF'S KNIFE, BONING KNIFE, SLICER
Are you right or left handed?
RIGHT
Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
JAPANESE HANDLE
What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
150mm FOR BONING
210mm FOR CHEF'S KNIFE
240mm FOR SLICER
Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
YES
What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
70$

Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
AT HOME, OCCASIONALLY
What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
ALMOST ALL
Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?
NO
What cutting motions do you primarily use?
SLICE
Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
I DON'T KNOW

Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
YES
Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
YES
Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
YES

In reality i really like Japanese knives, seeing the various models, i would like to have:
a Nakiri, for vegetables
a Deba, for boning fish and meat
and Yanagiba for filleting fish and meat.

For now i can single buy a knife, a knife Gyuto universal and in the meantime learn to do a little of everything, then forward buy throughout the set.
I'd prefer the double blade sharpening because I read that it is easier to use.
How material are still undecided between steel and stainless steel, for fear of rust.
A stainless steel knife takes less sharpening, but not using it every day as it goes sharp?

The maximum amount is 70$ but if I spend less is better. I've seen brands such as:
really cheap, with plastic handle, made in china: HAIKU YAKITORI (X50 Cr steel 15/54 °)
fewer cheap with wooden handle: KAI WASABI BLACK and CHROMA HAIKU HOME

Or i saw some interesting prices for the knives MORITAKA HAMONO Standard Series, Aogami#2Steel.

Moritaka, I read that some are suffering from defective workmanship and i have to be lucky to buy. it is true?
there are other handmade knives, with those prices?

Fiji warm FKM

Coqavin Probobly meant to say fujiwara fkm. You can check them out on JCK they are a great entry level knife the 210 gyuto is $75 flat postage fee of $7

You seem to be having autocorrect issues lately

Wow, stupid autocorrect :bigeek:

I thank you for the advice. Tojiro DP is in the same price range, and i read that they are the best brands entry level, but are of two material different, what do you recommend ?

MATERIAL
Fujiwara FKM:
Molybdenum Vanadium Stainless Steel, HRC 58 to 59
Tojiro DP:
VG-10, HRC 60, (are clad knives which means they take a piece of high quality VG-10 steel and sandwich it between an outer core of softer, stainless steel)
Tojiro layers are totally stainless steel, that's right ?

I've decided that I'm interested in having a stainless steel blade to not have rust problems.
I know that stainless steel is harder to sharpen but keeps sharpening longer or not ?
I'm interested in a double edge blade.

The only problem left is the handle, because I would have preferred a handle japanese WA (As literally translates this acronym?)

There are other valid brands at 50-70$ with handles wa ?

Finding a high quality knife in your price range is going to be difficult, simply because there are no "cheap" high quality knives -- you get what you pay for, as the American saying goes.

The Tojiro or the Fujiwara will be fine, there isn't much carbon steel exposed on the Tojiro, and so long as you are in the habit of cleaning your knife a soon as you finish using it it will not rust.

Either will be a very nice knife to use at home, and will last nearly forever in home use. Both are fairly easy to sharpen, and will hold an edge well for you.

I did find a very inexpensive gyuto on eBay from Korea, but it's not a "good" knife. Rough as all get-out, has saw marks on the spine and a number of issues in forging and grinding, but it's really a very usable knife. I got it to try the style without spending a pile of money, but I've not seen any since. Probably too little income for the maker. These are common knives in the Far East, as they appear to be made of scrap spring steel or railroad rails and are nothing special at all. Very reactive, in fact, and will rust instantly if left wet, but they sharpen well and hold a good edge in household use. For the price it was hard to pass it up.

Peter

Peter

psfred said:

Finding a high quality knife in your price range is going to be difficult, simply because there are no "cheap" high quality knives -- you get what you pay for, as the American saying goes.

The Tojiro or the Fujiwara will be fine, there isn't much carbon steel exposed on the Tojiro, and so long as you are in the habit of cleaning your knife a soon as you finish using it it will not rust.

Either will be a very nice knife to use at home, and will last nearly forever in home use. Both are fairly easy to sharpen, and will hold an edge well for you.

I did find a very inexpensive gyuto on eBay from Korea, but it's not a "good" knife. Rough as all get-out, has saw marks on the spine and a number of issues in forging and grinding, but it's really a very usable knife. I got it to try the style without spending a pile of money, but I've not seen any since. Probably too little income for the maker. These are common knives in the Far East, as they appear to be made of scrap spring steel or railroad rails and are nothing special at all. Very reactive, in fact, and will rust instantly if left wet, but they sharpen well and hold a good edge in household use. For the price it was hard to pass it up.

Peter

Peter

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I think you've got the Tojiro mixed up with the Hiro AS. The Tojiro DP is stainless. It's not easy to find good knives for $70 or less and I think those two are going to be the best bang for your buck. I bought my parents a Tojiro santoku a while back and the steel sharpens up very well and holds its edge decently, despite the amount of abuse it gets. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with gyutos from either line.

psfred said:

Either will be a very nice knife to use at home, and will last nearly forever in home use. Both are fairly easy to sharpen, and will hold an edge well for you.

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This is exactly what I try, and I thank you for the explanation.

Among Tojiro and Fujiwara so there are no large differences in materials?
I buy only what it costs less?

Both Tojiro that Fujiwara are industrial products, right?


EDIT:

James said:

I think you've got the Tojiro mixed up with the Hiro AS.

Click to expand...

What is Hiro AS ?

James said:

I bought my parents a Tojiro santoku a while back and the steel sharpens up very well and holds its edge decently, despite the amount of abuse it gets.

Click to expand...

Very good, thanks

Hiromoto AS - well reviewed knife with a carbon steel core and stainless steel cladding. It's a bit out of your price range.

So even the Tojiro is made with this system ? carbon steel core and stainless steel VG-10 cladding
Mentre il Fujiwara FKM is completely in stainless stell Molybdenum Vanadium

I understand it ?

Tojiro is made with vg10 core and stainless cladding

Sorry for additional question but, if the VG-10 is stainless steel, then it is a sandwich of stainless steel only ?

There are difference of quality between knife in Molybdenum Vanadium HRC 58/59 and sandwich with VG-10 HRC 60 ?

Sopranoto said:

Sorry for additional question but, if the VG-10 is stainless steel, then it is a sandwich of stainless steel only ?

There are difference of quality between knife in Molybdenum Vanadium HRC 58/59 and sandwich with VG-10 HRC 60 ?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Regarding Mo/V vs VG-10, depends on heat treat. VG-10 knives are generally more expensive than Mo/V. The Fujiwara Mo/V is a little more forgiving/tougher, the Tojiro VG-10 has better edge retention. Absolute sharpness will come down to your ability to sharpen.

Ok I understand

The only problem left is the handle, because I would have preferred a handle japanese WA (As literally translates this acronym ?)
I saw that you can convert, but it costs too much to get it done. I have the equipment and I do not think it is difficult, but I have a doubt, change the handle can cause problems balancing the knife ?

A wa- handled knife will generally be more blade heavy, yes. Personal preference.

With your restrained budget I would go for carbon steel. Costs less because production is a bit easier. Consider a Fujiwara FKH with japanesechefsknife.com or a softer French carbon with theinvisibleedge.co.uk. Have their home brand made by Thiers-Issard.

Sopranoto said:

Ok I understand

The only problem left is the handle, because I would have preferred a handle japanese WA (As literally translates this acronym ?)
I saw that you can convert, but it costs too much to get it done. I have the equipment and I do not think it is difficult, but I have a doubt, change the handle can cause problems balancing the knife ?

Click to expand...

converting from a western handle to a wa handle is definitely not easy. I'd say it's very technical. Think about grinding down the bolster and reshaping the tang. Making the wa handle alone is a big learning curve. It can still be balanced if you do it right. Although balance slightly foward can be great anyway. I would not undertake a wa conversion thinking it's going to be easy

Certainly it's very technical. The very problem is the bolster, remove it without compromising the blade is very difficult, but the other work not me preoccupy.
I don't know, appears a big work...

Or should I leave the bolster and put behind a wa handle, but it would be a hybrid and I do not know as it would be aesthetically
The best thing would be to buy a knife with a handle wa

I did a test with photo editing, leaving bolster and modifying (little) the metal profile of the handle (n. 2) I can make the wood handle, in two parts, to be pasted on the metal profile, you say that only the glue, is enough ?

In fact I would have liked a handle as the (n. 4) but the metal section of the handle is shorter!

Maybe it would be better to just get a wa handled gyuto. The sugimoto 210 gyuto is $76 from here http://japan-blades.com/chef-knives/1292.html

I haven't used it but others have said it's pretty good for the price

Thanks for the advice, but i'm now convinced for the Gyuto 180mm Fujiwara FKM, for now i will not change the handle, in the future we'll see...
Do you know by chance where i can buy it at a good price with shipping to Italy?

I read around that you mention Patina on knives but I did not understand, however, does not apply to stainless steel knives, right?

Can you also advise me what and how many stones for sharpening should i buy?
I wish i could also use it for the next knives.

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FKMSeries.html

JCK has a flat rate of $7 US shipping worldwide so a very affordable option.
If your knife is for general purpose use I would advise you to get something bigger, for a home cook 210-240 is a good place to start.

In a nut shell a "complete" set of stones comprises of coarse(200-800) medium(1k-2k) ,fine 3k+

You do most of your sharpening on the 1k and just polishing/refining/touching up on higher grits. Coarse stones are for chip repair, resetting bevels, thinning etc.

As you may already be buying a knife from JCK they sell a combination 1000/4000 stone which would be a great place to start . You could add a coarse stone later as you get better at sharpening.
It's $65 (good value)
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/WhetStonesForSale.html#Whetstone

There are also plenty of vendors here on the forums who sell stones, Dave Martel (japanese knife sharpening) ,Jon broida ( japanese knife imports , maxim ( japanese natural stones) to name a few.

Patina is what forms on carbon knives during normal use. It's basically blue, purple, yellow or black discolouration. Not applicable for stainless.

If you are learning to sharpen watch jons instructional videos here:
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEBF55079F53216AB
These are very good videos for people learning to sharpen and cover pretty much everything you need to know.

As an addition to Geoff only: you may get Naniwa and Naniwa Chosera stones to affordable prices in Europe with knivesandtools.nl and their different counterparts. I would suggest 800 and 3k stones as their grit system is a bit different.