choosing a long sujihiki

Hi Everyone. I'm going to post one of those what should I buy threads...

As the title says, I'm looking for a longer sujihiki. I am replacing a 12" victorinox slicer. I like to cook the bigger BBQ items and I need a long slicer. Briskets, pastrami, bacon, hams, leg of lamb, etc. This is going to be a dedicated protein slicer, not any kind of all purpose knife. I also sometimes slice pork butt thinly for hot and fast grilling which i found the victorinox slicer was terrible at; i'd always switch to a gyuto for this.

My preference is carbon or semi stainless. Since I'm only using it as a slicer, I don't care so much about the handle; western or wa is okay.

I have my eye on the Misono Swedish 330mm at JCK at $301. I really like the kochi, but it maxes out at 270mm.

Are there any other suji in this length that you would recommend in my price range? I'd go up to $350.

As a tangent, what grit would recommend finishing at for this knife? I have to cut through bbq bark (tough caramelized sugar) sometimes and I'm thinking I will stop at 2000-3000 grit.

800grit max

What about one from metal master, not sure where you are located, but someone just said they are getting a 330

CoqaVin said:

What about one from metal master, not sure where you are located, but someone just said they are getting a 330

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Thanks CoqaVin. I'm in the US. I saw that thread too. I think they were getting a yanagiba though. It seems that longer yanagiba are more common than longer sujihiki? I've found very few over 300mm that are not customs. In all the threads I've read through it seems sujihiki is more suited to the tasks I mentioned so that's what I've been looking at so far.

I like to play with fire - especially on my back porch. With the grill, rotisserie or with a dedicated smoker. Slicing the meats you've mentioned I've never thought a 270 was too short and for some I defer to a 240. Make sure it's fairly stiff, this is not an application where flex is a good thing. I like stainless or semi-stainless clad because I can't always give the knife the care a carbon requires when I'm grilling and chilling. If you've got to have a 300 I recall that Jon has a Ginga that long.

A knife you may not have considered for cutting through bark is a scimitar. I have a Victorinox that I like a lot for tougher work. It will hold a decent edge and more importantly has a good bit of torsional strength. It's good for crusty briskets, whacking cooked chickens, slicing pork, chopping sausage and a host of other duties. And it's dirt cheap. (And I'm not going to take a $400 suji to deer camp)

Have fun.

270 vs Porcetta



270 vs brisket (Pre Scimitar days)





Marko petty to trim, scimitar to portion. (bit of overkill but fun)

Thanks Dave. I was comparing to 12" victorinox slicer (lots of flex) which I found a bit short for some applications like slicing bacon. Bacon especially gets big, 11" to 12" wide. For comparison, that is a 12" slicer there compared to my last bacon from a pretty average sized 12 lb belly:




I expect with a sujihiki, I would get more cutting out of a pull cut so maybe I can get away with a little shorter.

I agree other than that most items could be handled by a 270 or 300mm. It would open up a lot more options too.

Hocho-knife.com has a 300mm glestain-tm-all-stainless-sujihiki-knife

I have been very happy with my Suisin carbon 270mm sujihiki from Korin. It slices everything I need it to. Korin have a few at 300mm, but I don't see too many options for a 330mm carbon sujihiki that are readily available. I say go for it and as a plus the dragon on the Misono Swedish steel is quite distinctive. You will have the coolest knife amongst your BBQ buddies.

panda said:

800grit max

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Even with the finest grained carbon (e.g. Misono Swedish, Thiers-Issard) you can't expect to get entirely rid of the burr at that grit.
By the way, my Fujiwara FKH 270mm is remarkably stiff.

Benuser, I read some of your threads searching for info on the Misono Swedish. What are your thoughts on the reactivity if used as a dedicated protein knife? I think I can handle it; I have a Tanaka Damascus Blue which is also said to be on the more reactive side. Is the pakka wood handle on the big or small size?

Someone I work with has a Misono Swedish gyuto, but uses it for a lot of stuff, and it has patina,'d pretty bad, I guess that has to do with how reactive it is, different strokes for different folks though ya know

As long as it is not rust, I'm happy. I like my knives to look like they're being used, I leave sharpening scratches on too.

I just bought a 270 suji from Jon over the weekend. I expect it in today. I have the 210 petty in the same line and love the knife. It is by far my favorite in my collection.

My Misono is a gyuto and was extremely reactive so I've forced a patina. With proteins though I expect a patina to appear spontaneously and you don't have taste and colour transfers. You should ask Geo86 who has a Misono sujihiki.

Even if Jon does not have the knife you need in the (online) shop, he may be able to help you further. Giving him a call may be a good idea.

I personally don't understand these low grit finishes some prefer. My pan-seared steaks have a cats-iron bark to them and my knives finished with a 10K+ glide right thru it.


Rick

My vote would go to a 300mm Konosuke in either HD2 or White #2. If that's too short go VFR direct to Konosuke and they will make anything you want. They might ask that you work through a US importer, however.

Cheers,

Rick

rick alen said:

I personally don't understand these low grit finishes some prefer. My pan-seared steaks have a cats-iron bark to them and my knives finished with a 10K+ glide right thru it.


Rick

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My first question would be how to realize them. When I need a fine stone to completely deburr, should I go back to a lower grit? Any stroke with a lower grit will create a new burr, I guess?

At a low grit you don't need to deburr with a stone, just flip it a few times and pull it off on a cardboard box. You can slice one crusty steak with a 10k edge. Slicing thirty is a different story.

I'll experiment with different grits anyway. I was just curious where other people would stop.

I was looking at the konosuke HD2 300mm at Tosho. They're all sold out (of most things konosuke actually) or I would have gotten the ebony handled one. I'm going to call Jon tomorrow about a 300mm gesshin ginga or kochi. The kochi looks thicker which in my mind means it would flex less. Since I'm only using it for proteins, the extra thickness should be okay, right?

IndoorOutdoorCook said:

I'll experiment with different grits anyway. I was just curious where other people would stop.

I was looking at the konosuke HD2 300mm at Tosho. They're all sold out (of most things konosuke actually) or I would have gotten the ebony handled one. I'm going to call Jon tomorrow about a 300mm gesshin ginga or kochi. The kochi looks thicker which in my mind means it would flex less. Since I'm only using it for proteins, the extra thickness should be okay, right?

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If you're going to trim large cuts of raw meats, I wouldn't recommend a thicker sujihiki. A thinner knife is a superior trimming knife if you're precise about trimming. And a high grit finished knife is superior for trimming. It makes cutting through fat and silver skin easy.

If you're just going to cut cooked products, a thicker knife is fine - I use a 270 Ginga Gyuto for slicing briskets, for example. And I still prefer a high grit finish - 6000 - versus lower grit finishes. The bark of any barbecue is hard, but if you use a sharper knife, it makes cutting through the meat much easier once you get through the bark. You'll do less sawing. None of the knives I use are finished on less than a 2000 grit stone.

FWIW - I cook a lot of barbecue. I don't use a sujihiki, but I use a thin, sharp gyuto to trim.

I have a Konosuke HD2 300mm sujihiki and agree with mhlee regarding his opinion against using it on cooked meats. It's such a delicate bevel it would be better used on raw fish / vegetables (delicate work). For that kind of job you want, i would use a gyuto (the one i use myself is a gyuto white #2 konosuke fujiyama at 270mm, love it!), but if you are determined to pursue the suji route, i would choose another one, not sure which, though.

I love using my 300mm martell suji on just about any raw or cooked meat. No flex at all, good height and slight curve in the profile makes it feel a bit longer than 300.

Marcelo Amaral said:

I have a Konosuke HD2 300mm sujihiki and agree with mhlee regarding his opinion against using it on cooked meats. It's such a delicate bevel it would be better used on raw fish / vegetables (delicate work). For that kind of job you want, i would use a gyuto (the one i use myself is a gyuto white #2 konosuke fujiyama at 270mm, love it!), but if you are determined to pursue the suji route, i would choose another one, not sure which, though.

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Actually, Marcelo, I would be fine using a 300 sujihiki on cooked meats. Cooked barbecue is tough on edges - it causes a very sharp edge to lose its sharpness rather quickly - but I haven't chipped an edge cutting barbecue. And, most 300 mm knives are significantly thicker than 240, so if they don't have any flex, I would use one. You'll just have to refresh the edge more often when cutting barbecue.

That being said, I don't have a 300 mm sujihiki because the only use I would have for it is to cut brisket; I use a 270 gyuto for all large cutting jobs.

I would only add that while thicker knife may show less flex, the difference in steels (and HT of course) may have even stronger impact. So asking specifically about the flex may be a good idea.

Benuser said:

My Misono is a gyuto and was extremely reactive so I've forced a patina. With proteins though I expect a patina to appear spontaneously and you don't have taste and colour transfers. You should ask Geo86 who has a Misono sujihiki.

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The misono 270 sujihiki has more flex than you would like so not an option considering you want a stiff sujihiki.

Once patina was set reactivity is really a non issue, Average edge retention though. Great knife for filleting salmon and portioning boneless proteins. definitely not good for BBQ slicing tasks

[video=youtube_share;UY-WUrhda8Q]http://youtu.be/UY-WUrhda8Q?list=UUX6VEhNbmCnY8jPrF6VTzOA[/video]

Thanks everyone. I ended up with the Kochi 270mm because it's on the thicker stiffer side. It is actually oversized, half way to a 300mm.

always liked the hattori kf suji too. hope the kochi does the job