Looking for a high quality bread knife with a straight edge

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dglevy

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Hi all!

It's been a while since I've been on the forums. I've been very happy with my Tojiro DP set of three knives and have been actively resisting buying any more...

I'm currently looking for a bread knife, since I've been using my gyuto up to now and it doesn't work as well, I think, as a bread knife would. I'm looking for:
  1. a high HRC
  2. a straight edge, or relatively straight edge
  3. at least 9" long
  4. under $120
Not surprisingly, the pickings have been slim, with all those requirements. Here's what I've found, in order of preference--at the moment, at least:
  1. Shun Sora 9": VG10 clad. This is my top choice because of price. Listed at $100 but I think I can get it for $80 elsewhere. I'm a bit concerned about the serrations--how easy they will be to sharpen; also, the 420J stainless cladding, might it scratch easily? My Tojiro 8" gyuto cladding was so soft, it got scratched cutting crusty breads. Slightly curved--I would've preferred straight.
  2. Kasumi hammered VG10: $120. Looks like this is monosteel, which would avoid the concern about hard crusts scratching the sides. Interesting hammered design, not useful for bread, but this knife series might be worth another look b/c the blade pattern supposedly prevents food from sticking. Blade length at this link not specified but I have 10" in my notes. Slightly curved--I would've preferred straight.
  3. Masahiro MV-H 10" $120. MBS-26 steel, 58-60 HRC supposedly. I'm not familiar with this steel and don't know how it will perform. The blurb claims it's like VG10. Straight edge, not curved, which is good. But the bevel is 80/20 so I'm a bit concerned it may not cut straight.
  4. Katsura VG-10 Damascus 9" $90. Straight edge, not curved, which is good. But they don't say what kind of steel is used for the cladding and that doesn't inspire confidence, in my view.
As always, thoughtful, well-informed advice is the most appreciated! And if you have experience with other knives that fit the criteria, please let me know.

Cheers!
 
What are your preferences on the serrations? On the DP they scallop outwards instead of in like most of the western style. I've found the inward serrations help out more with the crusty loaves.
 
The little brother to the Mother, https://www.lehmans.com/showProduct.aspx?SEName=our-best-knives-by-franz-gude&ProductID=1158

A German knife, prob does not meet your HRC requirement but is easily the best "inexpensive" bread knife I've used. Neither of my Gude's show bread scratches but if they did some wet/dry would restore them easily. I've some experience with Shun lines (though not the Sora) and they dull very quickly. Like can't cut clean slices on a baguette quickly.
 
Thanks, guys, for your thoughtful replies.

knyfeknerd said:
What are your preferences on the serrations? On the DP they scallop outwards instead of in like most of the western style. I've found the inward serrations help out more with the crusty loaves.
Click to expand...

I don't have a preference on the serrations b/c I don't know bread knives well enough to have an opinion. But I'm not too concerned, if they only affect performance with crusty loaves. I rarely get crusty loaves. Usually, the bread I get has been wrapped so the crust is fairly soft--but it's a tough crust--a very dense, whole wheat sourdough, so it needs a nice sharp knife for ease of cutting. My gyuto would sometimes not bite into it, it was that tough.

daveb said:
The little brother to the Mother, https://www.lehmans.com/showProduct.aspx?SEName=our-best-knives-by-franz-gude&ProductID=1158
A German knife, prob does not meet your HRC requirement but is easily the best "inexpensive" bread knife I've used. Neither of my Gude's show bread scratches but if they did some wet/dry would restore them easily. I've some experience with Shun lines (though not the Sora) and they dull very quickly. Like can't cut clean slices on a baguette quickly.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I looked at the Gude link. They don't specify the type of steel or HRC, so I'd be hesitant. I'm surprised to hear you say the Shun lines dull quickly. Do you mean that about all their knives or just the bread knives?

P.S. Regarding knife #4 here above, I noticed that CKTG, which is a reputable outfit, also didn't specify the steel type for the damascus cladding on some of its knives, so this may not be a deal-breaker.
 
Dude, just... [video=youtube;dvNs4zB6zXg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvNs4zB6zXg&app=desktop[/video]
 
toddnmd said:
Just curious, why the requirement for a straight edge?
Click to expand...
The argument I've heard about a curved edge is that it prevents your knuckles from hitting the table, but I always have my cutting board at the edge of the table, so hitting my knuckles is not an issue. My thinking is that I've got a flat board and the bottom of the bread is flat, so the fastest way to finish the slice is with a straight edge--same reason people prefer a straight edge on their gyutos vs the curved edge of German knives, etc.

ThEoRy said:
Dude, just...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know the Tojiro ITK made a big splash when it came out a couple years ago, but see the last paragraph about curved edges. Also, the Tojiro is moly-vanadium, no HRC figures that I can find. I am very concerned about edge retention. As someone far more experienced than I said, "With all bread knives, sharpening is problematic."

I just re-discovered this knife:
Mac Superior 10.5", $85 plus shipping. HRC of 60 supposedly. It's moly-van-tungsten; I didn't know that alloy could be hardened to that degree, but it may be so. It has a curve toward the tip, but the rest seems to be fairly straight. And it's BIG! And the reviews on the forums have been largely positive. This might be a winner...

Does anyone have experience or knowledge about any of these five knives? (The four knives mentioned in the OP plus the Mac.)
 
As to hrc and type of steel, this should be of no importance with a bread knife.

The Gude is likely the best of those mentioned but personally I'd just buy a Forschner. It'll do the job well and save some cash, plus it's cheap enough to just buy another instead of re-sharpening:biggrin:
 
chinacats said:
As to hrc and type of steel, this should be of no importance with a bread knife.
Click to expand...

This.

High RC = better edge retention is an oversimplification (and incorrect) anyway. As an added caveat, the numbers given by the resellers are often inconsistent.

If you must have a straight blade J-knife, the Misono moly fits the bill. The Forscher bread knife is a fine performer though.
 
I am really happy with my Shun Bob Kramer Meiji (SG2 core, claimed HRC 63-64). I cannot remember how much I paid for it though.
 
chinacats said:
. It'll do the job well and save some cash, plus it's cheap enough to just buy another instead of re-sharpening:biggrin:
Click to expand...

Life is too short to **** around with resharpening serrated knives. Remember the better the retention, likely the more of a pita it's going to be to resharpen. Tourne knives and serrated knives, I'll buy one of the little plastic Kuhn Rikons and a forshner a year.
 
dglevy said:
The argument I've heard about a curved edge is that it prevents your knuckles from hitting the table, but I always have my cutting board at the edge of the table, so hitting my knuckles is not an issue. My thinking is that I've got a flat board and the bottom of the bread is flat, so the fastest way to finish the slice is with a straight edge--same reason people prefer a straight edge on their gyutos vs the curved edge of German knives, etc.


Yeah, I know the Tojiro ITK made a big splash when it came out a couple years ago, but see the last paragraph about curved edges. Also, the Tojiro is moly-vanadium, no HRC figures that I can find. I am very concerned about edge retention. As someone far more experienced than I said, "With all bread knives, sharpening is problematic."
Click to expand...


Can't argue with your want for a straight knife only that it's just that, a want. As for edge retention on the itk, I purchased the knife in the video about a year prior to it's posting so I've had it about 5 years now. Still works like a charm. For the $ it's a win.
 
chinacats said:
As to hrc and type of steel, this should be of no importance with a bread knife.
Click to expand...

Timthebeaver said:
This.
High RC = better edge retention is an oversimplification (and incorrect) anyway. As an added caveat, the numbers given by the resellers are often inconsistent.
Click to expand...

I'm curious to know why HRC would be irrelevant. That seems to be the whole point of Japanese knives vs German. Increase the hardness and the edge will last longer; doesn't matter whether the edge is straight or serrated, you want it to stay sharp. In fact, it's even more of a concern with serrated edges b/c they're such a pain to sharpen.

I have indeed noticed that there's not a lot of talk about HRC and bread knives, just curious to know why.
 
The scallop edge flat backside you can sharpen. Mostly I have sharpened Forschner 10.25 wavy edge. These knives work well but esp. the rosewood handle have gone up in price quite a bit. I used to sharpen the teeth on my ice carving chainsaw that is a PITA way more teeth than a breadknife. A little rocker in a bread knife will not affect cutting efficiency. If cutting a lot of croutons a knife like the Tojiro works quite well.

Like any other quality knife if you take care of the edge it will last much longer. If those serrated edges bang against hard objects they get wasted. Bakers are the worst offenders cutting on hard sheet pans.(Sorry dough makers):O
 
dglevy said:
The argument I've heard about a curved edge is that it prevents your knuckles from hitting the table, but I always have my cutting board at the edge of the table, so hitting my knuckles is not an issue. My thinking is that I've got a flat board and the bottom of the bread is flat, so the fastest way to finish the slice is with a straight edge--same reason people prefer a straight edge on their gyutos vs the curved edge of German knives, etc.


Yeah, I know the Tojiro ITK made a big splash when it came out a couple years ago, but see the last paragraph about curved edges. Also, the Tojiro is moly-vanadium, no HRC figures that I can find. I am very concerned about edge retention. As someone far more experienced than I said, "With all bread knives, sharpening is problematic."

I just re-discovered this knife:
Mac Superior 10.5", $85 plus shipping. HRC of 60 supposedly. It's moly-van-tungsten; I didn't know that alloy could be hardened to that degree, but it may be so. It has a curve toward the tip, but the rest seems to be fairly straight. And it's BIG! And the reviews on the forums have been largely positive. This might be a winner...

Does anyone have experience or knowledge about any of these five knives? (The four knives mentioned in the OP plus the Mac.)
Click to expand...

I have the MAC and love it, to the point of deciding it is my final bread knife (unlike gyutos, petties, etc., where I feel like there will always be room to explore). I can't say I use it a lot, but it does get regular use, and when I do use it, I really enjoy it. I've never seen the long gentle curve as anything but positive--I my alter my technique just a bit when getting to the bottom of the cut, but have never given it any thought.

If I have to sharpen it every several or five years, so be it. I can live with that.

The Tojiro ITK seems to have generally good reviews as well. And the Gude, even if somewhat more expensive, also seems to be a well-regarded knife.
 
Hm.
With all due respect, but what I don't get is, why You're so focused on a bread knife with a straight edge, of all edges?
I mean, there must be a good reason why knife manufacturers all over the world choose serrations for their bread knives.

As it happens, I own a few old bread knifes designed in carbon steel, and they are only useful in combination with very soft bread, e.g. japanese bread. Even french or italian white bread is much better sliced with a serrated edge. And when it comes to old style country bread, straight edged knives become a p*i*t*a.

I prefer german manufacturers.
Guede 12 inches has a very thick blade and doesn't deserve it's good reputation imho.
Robert Herder / Windmill Knives / "Grandmoulin" is nearly perfect, but expensive (9 inches). They produce a lot of different bread knives.
F.Dick 1905 fits best into your budget (12 inches) and is readily available to boot.

Just my 2c.
 
I've used both straight and curved bread knives, and I much prefer the curved. I found that a straight blade required blade contact with the cutting board along the entire length of the knife, where a curved blade made contact with the board only directly under the bread. This not only excessively chews up the cutting board, but I found that I had to make a second stroke to cut through completely. My advice is to forget a straight blade and get a MAC or a Tojiro ITK.The only time a straight blade may have an advantage is if you are baker and use it to cut a cake layer horizontally, where it's easier to see what you are doing with a straight blade.
 
Thanks to everyone for their replies. Many have been interesting and thought-provoking. Some have posted (e.g. proposing alternatives to the knives I'm considering) where the poster hasn't looked at the OP. So, please LOOK AT MY PURCHASING CRITERIA IN THE OP before posting--save us all some time. Just to clarify, for WIC, I'm looking for a serrated knife with a straight edge, not a straight edge like on a gyuto or any other non-bread knife.

Pensacola Tiger said:
I've used both straight and curved bread knives, and I much prefer the curved. I found that a straight blade required blade contact with the cutting board along the entire length of the knife, where a curved blade made contact with the board only directly under the bread. This not only excessively chews up the cutting board, but I found that I had to make a second stroke to cut through completely. My advice is to forget a straight blade and get a MAC or a Tojiro ITK.The only time a straight blade may have an advantage is if you are baker and use it to cut a cake layer horizontally, where it's easier to see what you are doing with a straight blade.
Click to expand...

Thanks, PT, for your detailed and thoughtful post. You've spoken directly to one of my main concerns! Can we have some back-and-forth on this?

I most certainly do not want to chew up my cutting board. I use a board that's made of a soft wood specifically so that is easy on my knife edges. My thinking was that having a straight edge would actually save the board and make the cutting more efficient. The way I picture it, "a straight blade require blade contact with the cutting board along the entire length of the knife, where a curved blade ma[kes] contact with the board only directly under the bread." That's what I want, I think. It seems to me that, as soon as your blade hits the board--if the blade is parallel to the board--the slice is done--minimal contact with the board. On the other hand, if you have a curved blade, you only have about, say, a half inch contact with the board and you have to drag the knife across the board from top to bottom to finish the cut, thereby chewing up the board.
 
dglevy said:
Thanks to everyone for their replies. Many have been interesting and thought-provoking. Some have posted (e.g. proposing alternatives to the knives I'm considering) where the poster hasn't looked at the OP. So, please LOOK AT MY PURCHASING CRITERIA IN THE OP before posting--save us all some time. Just to clarify, for WIC, I'm looking for a serrated knife with a straight edge, not a straight edge like on a gyuto or any other non-bread knife.



Thanks, PT, for your detailed and thoughtful post. You've spoken directly to one of my main concerns! Can we have some back-and-forth on this?

I most certainly do not want to chew up my cutting board. I use a board that's made of a soft wood specifically so that is easy on my knife edges. My thinking was that having a straight edge would actually save the board and make the cutting more efficient. The way I picture it, "a straight blade require blade contact with the cutting board along the entire length of the knife, where a curved blade ma[kes] contact with the board only directly under the bread." That's what I want, I think. It seems to me that, as soon as your blade hits the board--if the blade is parallel to the board--the slice is done--minimal contact with the board. On the other hand, if you have a curved blade, you only have about, say, a half inch contact with the board and you have to drag the knife across the board from top to bottom to finish the cut, thereby chewing up the board.
Click to expand...


Let me ask how many 9" slices of bread will you be cutting? Even a 9" farmer's loaf will only have a couple of slices that long, where your analysis will apply. So you will have 9" of board contact even when slicing a 4" slice. Not to mention that many loaves are not flat on the bottom for the entire width of the slice - baguettes and some rustic loaves, for example.

Regardless of whether you get a straight or curved blade, I forgot to say that you want to get a scalloped edge, as it is much, much easier on your board than the sharp pointed serrated kind. It's one of the reasons I resold the Güde bread knife I picked up the day after I used it and discovered that it tore up my BoardSMITH.
 
Pensacola Tiger said:
Regardless of whether you get a straight or curved blade, I forgot to say that you want to get a scalloped edge, as it is much, much easier on your board than the sharp pointed serrated kind. It's one of the reasons I resold the Güde bread knife I picked up the day after I used it and discovered that it tore up my BoardSMITH.
Click to expand...
Ah, very interesting! Thanks for that. I'm too sleepy to mull over your reply but will post again tomorrow.
 
Maybe a silly question, but why not just get a cheap endgrain board for cutting bread?
 
apathetic said:
Maybe a silly question, but why not just get a cheap endgrain board for cutting bread?
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Winter-is-coming said:
I'll second that.
Way too complicated.
Click to expand...

I'll hold off replying to PT's post to reply to this 'sidebar'. I live in a tiny studio apartment, so space is at a premium. I thought of getting another cutting board just for bread, but I have no idea where I could store it for convenient access. Just out of curiosity, though, a 'cheap endgrain board'--does such a thing exist? Could you point me to one or two? I might be tempted if a decent sized one were to cost, say, $40 or under. Or would $40 or under be pie in the sky?
 
Don't know about the US, but here you can find them under your budget at TK Maxx. I think the US equivalent is TJ Maxx, so I would look there. That being said, I meant to say edge grain, that's what I use for bread. reason being they're much thinner than end grain boards and very light. You also don't need a big one, so that would make it easier to store in a convenient place where you can reach it easily.
 
I keep an Epicurean hanging on the cabinet door beneath my "good" cutting board. Raw protein and bread are the principle uses. They are lightweight, robust, easy to clean and relatively inexpensive. I can tell where the Gude has been and if it gets too bad I can sand it down or replace it.
 
apathetic said:
Don't know about the US, but here you can find them under your budget at TK Maxx. I think the US equivalent is TJ Maxx, so I would look there. That being said, I meant to say edge grain, that's what I use for bread. reason being they're much thinner than end grain boards and very light. You also don't need a big one, so that would make it easier to store in a convenient place where you can reach it easily.
Click to expand...

daveb said:
I keep an Epicurean hanging on the cabinet door beneath my "good" cutting board. Raw protein and bread are the principle uses. They are lightweight, robust, easy to clean and relatively inexpensive. I can tell where the Gude has been and if it gets too bad I can sand it down or replace it.
Click to expand...

toddnmd said:
I don't notice where my MAC touches my board. I think the scalloped blade greatly reduces board contact to a minimum.
When I used to have a cheap but straight edge bread knife, it left obvious marks on my board.
Click to expand...

Awesome, helpful posts. Thanks, guys!

Ah, TK Maxx, I remember it well! I was living briefly in Ireland earlier this year, there was a store in the same building as my apartment. And, yes, it is indeed the same as TJ Maxx.

For sure, looks like scalloped edge is the way to go b/c it's less liable to hack up the board.
 
The ITK is really easy to sharpen with a ceramic rod and a flat stone. Best bread knife I've ever owned, and it rarely needs sharpening (I bake a lot of bread).
 
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