Suggestions welcome for my very firsts Japaneses non stainless knives

Hello everybody, it is time for me to get into serious knifes !


LOCATION

-France


KNIFE TYPE

-Chef’s knife + Paring knife

-Right handed

-Western handle

-210 or 240 mm + 90mm

-Not stainless

-$240 or less


KNIFE USE

-At home

-Slicing vegetables and fruits, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, all purpose use

-I mainly use the Finger Point grip.

-I Rock, Slice, and Walk.

My best actual knife is a 12" sanelli (hrc 54-56), I want something that is much better, the difference has to be drastic, I aim for a relatively thin blade that goes through all sorts of food with ease and retain a very good edge with use.

I don't mind much about the looks, I'm all about performance and ease of use, but I want something that can be well sanitized and cleaned thoroughly, hence my request for a western handle. It should be made from something that is extremely tough.

Comfort : Lighter knife.

Ease of Use : Easier to sharpen, comfort of the handle.

Edge Retention : The longer the better, it will have to endure the polyethylene board.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE

- I use a heavy, 60 by 40 cm synthetic cutting board (HDPE)

- I have two naniwa pro, 800 and 3000, I plan to buy an atoma plate (140 or 400 grit) and maybe also a 8000 grit stone later.

I would prefer to order directly from Japan but if there's a better deal another way I'm also interested.

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks !

Misono Sweden? The 240 even comes with a funky dragon engraving...and you can get a matching 80mm paring (no dragon on that one) and come in exactly 1$ over budget..

Misono Swedish Carbon would be my recommendation too. My preferences have changed in the meantime (prefer wa-handles nowadays) but my Misono is still one of my favourites! Fit and finish are outstanding!

You can purchase the knives at JCK, which is a top seller in Japan with a shipping rate of only 7 US$ worldwide!

Masamoto HC or Misono Swedish - compare the two shapes and see which one you prefer. I personally like the profile and handle of the Misono, it has better fit and finish too.

The Masamoto is better steel (IMO) and thinner/lighter (though there is some variation).

Thanks for all the suggestions, I have been browsing the site but I haven't paid attention to theses before. What about the Tenmi-Jyuraku Series (Aogami Super)

The Misono Swedish 240mm & 80 mm seems to be an exact fit in my budget witch is great. I just ordered the 140 grit atoma plate so I'm going to sleep on that and tomorrow I may order the knifes, they seem really great. I don't mind the fact that they are reactive. You use camellia oil or other oils are great ? I like to use jojoba oil on my tools because it is not too thick since it's a kind of wax.

I use Sunflower oil because my knives all get used very often, washed before / after use and the oil does not have time to turn rancid.

Once the patina was built on my Misono, it wasn't reactive anymore...

If you are talking about Hiromoto TJ(AS), those are fantastic knives too (I own a 190mm santoku). Bear in mind those are clad knives (only the core is carbon steel), cladding is stainless. The handle size is rather small and F&F are very far away from Misono (at least in my experience). FWIW, these knives are discontinued, only current stock is available, they are no longer produced.

I remember Korin, one of the sponsor vendors here, has a presence in France.

http://www.korin-france.fr/

In the states they retail the Masamoto and Misono. Should be worth a look.

Nice one, they are near a customer of mine I often visit...I shall contact them at some point to go check a few items.

Regular use and cleaning should alleviate the need to oil your knives unless you live in an area that is extremely humid.
As to the knife, I would also consider Suien.

Too late to edit, but meant to say that a well done wa handle will be as hygienic as a western...maybe even better than a poorly done western (of which you can find plenty).
Good luck!

chinacats said:

Too late to edit, but meant to say that a well done wa handle will be as hygienic as a western...maybe even better than a poorly done western (of which you can find plenty).
Good luck!

Click to expand...

lus1: My westerns are not of stabilized wood but I have had problems with some of them (shrinkage and splitting), no issues with the wa handles.

I have both Hiromotos and Misonos. Fit & Finish on the Misonos are indeed very good. With a Hiromoto you may encounter some minor F&F issues that need a few minutes work with two grades of sandpaper.
The carbon steel Misono gyuto has a bit of flex, the cladded Hiromoto is very stiff. Besides the somewhat easier maintenance of a stainless clad I would note Hiromoto's exceptional edge retention and bite, and Misono's very easy sharpening and only average edge retention. Recent Hiromotos come with a decent edge OOTB, the Misono comes with an overly convexed one by buffering. It takes a bit of work to put straight bevels on it as you should do.

By the way, abandon rocking and walking.

http://www.cookfoodgood.com/?p=405

Honestly I think you'd be pretty tickled with the performance of the cheap Tanaka Santoku. It's a bit shorter than the Gyuto you desire but for you home use it would be great. It has a crude handle made of wood and a plastic ferrule. But the wood is actually tightly grained and thick and comfy for a right hander.

It's also about 60$ out the door. I really like the Tanaka blue #2 knives because they are a no frills good cutter, better than some more expensive knives. Western handled knives add to the cost and limit your choices. If you just want to get a taste of good carbon performance, it's really quite hard to beat the Tanaka knives. Also they are perfect for practicing sharpening.

CutFingers said:

Honestly I think you'd be pretty tickled with the performance of the cheap Tanaka Santoku. It's a bit shorter than the Gyuto you desire but for you home use it would be great. It has a crude handle made of wood and a plastic ferrule. But the wood is actually tightly grained and thick and comfy for a right hander.

It's also about 60$ out the door. I really like the Tanaka blue #2 knives because they are a no frills good cutter, better than some more expensive knives. Western handled knives add to the cost and limit your choices. If you just want to get a taste of good carbon performance, it's really quite hard to beat the Tanaka knives. Also they are perfect for practicing sharpening.

Click to expand...

I have an inexpensive Yaxell kurouchi santoku in blue #2, and it's an awesome cutter. Nice grind, distal taper, easy to get wicked sharp. Holds an edge very well, too. Cost like $43 off Rakuten.

Thanks for all the good advices, I really appreciate. Now I feel like I need the 165mm Takana on top of the 80mm Misono and the 270mm Hiromoto.. How do you call that ? That would make a great set tough. I think I'm going to get this one for a start.



By the way it looks like there is a red logo on the ferrule on other pictures I find on the web, is it a sticker or something printed ? I wouldn't like to see chippings of logos or something else come off.

Ps : I'm not sure I get the guillotine technique.

About the Hiromoto: hurry up, just a few left of the 270mm

The guillotine technique: BDL called it "guillotine and glide", it's basically a forward motion once you have touched the food with the front ("belly") part of the blade -- the guillotine part. So you benefit from the distal taper that makes the tip and the front area thinner than the middle and heel of the blade. Avoid unnecessary board contact and avoid to make any noise when cutting.
About walking: the worst thing you can do to a Japanese edge. Lateral forces will lead to chipping with these thin, hard, asymmetric edges.

I just pulled the trigger on all of them. I was going to buy them anyway so why wait

Roger said:

I just pulled the trigger on all of them. I was going to buy them anyway so why wait

Click to expand...

Sorry, which did you buy? And please be sure to follow up at a point and let us know what you think.
Cheers

The Tanaka Blue steel 165mm Nakiri, the Misono 80mm Paring knife and the Hiromoto 270mm Gyuto. Like I was saying I felt like I was going to buy these one day or another so why wait.

The Nakiri makes an intermediary size so I picked up the bigger size for the Gyuto.

I was a very tough choice to make so I found out the solution, not choose between two knifes by getting both of them.

I'm going to have a great experience right at the beginning. I can't wait for theses packages !

Sweet! Nice move on the Hiromoto, and as they say when they're all gone... When you've had it for a bit and decide to thin it, you will be amazed at the performance...alternatively you could send it to Dave Martell for the performance package!

Overall, you are going to have some very sharp fun!

Cheers

I received them a couple days ago, I'm very happy with my choices ! I ordered a 10K stone to get them razor sharp.

I really enjoy cooking with the Nakiri, the Gyuto and the pairing knife. They all have their domain of predilection and are a treat to sharpen. I did changed the way I'm cutting since I have them. For my next purchase I'm looking for a shorter (18-21cm), single beveled knife with a nice tip, witch should be very fast to use for all purpose tasks. I'm giving myself some time to choose something really great, I was curious what most of you guys would choose for a versatile piece.

Roger said:

I just pulled the trigger on all of them. I was going to buy them anyway so why wait

Click to expand...

I have no problem with this line of thinking. Good job dude

Your collection is calling for a good petty. The gesshin ittetsu series at JKI has a single bevel petty at 180mm if you wanna add a wa handled knife to your repertoire. Its single bevel as well. I've never bought anything from Jon that I've regretted, and ask for his sharpening service!! Oh man it'll give you a goal to strive towards in your skills as a sharpener and really show you the knife's full potential.

I ordered the whole progression of wet/dry sandpaper + micromesh and two new stones on fine tools... That's going to make some mirrors !! They should be there tomorrow I'm stocked up on sharpening supplies for years now hehe

It's a good suggestion, I'm looking for that kind of handle with the single bevel. Unfortunately it's a bit over my budget, I would like to be around a hundred dollars for this one, I don't want a collection piece, more like something I can use really good and enjoy it worry free. I prefer to not buy from the US since I live in France there can be huge taxes. I'm better off getting them directly from Japan or shipped from inside the EU.