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Thread: Kitchen Knife Glossary

  1. #21
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    SpikeC's Avatar
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    In the world of wood working, the first bevel that is put on the blade is the primary bevel, the second bevel, which firms the cutting edge, is the secondary bevel, as it is the second one formed. I have always been puzzled by the way many in the knife world reverse the terminology.
    Spike C
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  2. #22
    Senior Member spaceconvoy's Avatar
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    I think there's some confusion with using above/below to talk about bevels. It might be clearer to say the primary bevel is the lowest angle bevel, and the secondary bevel is a bevel cut at a higher angle than the primary bevel, with there potentially being less commonly used tertiary, quaternary, etc. bevels.

    Also, ryoba (double-bevel) might be another useful Japanese term to list.

    Great work over-all, and I'm glad you're working on a what-knife-to-buy guide too - should be very useful.

  3. #23
    Dave Martell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johndoughy View Post
    I will confidently assert, in spite of your massive expertise, that it is in fact the opposite.

    Every diagram and definition I've seen puts it the other way around!

    I know, almost every person says it wrong and it gets repeated wrong so it becomes fact but if check out some of the pro sharpener stuff as well as factory stuff and even the first book on sharpening ever written it all says otherwise. I'll see if I can dig up something online to reference.

  4. #24
    Dave Martell's Avatar
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    1/2 way down this page shows a drawing of primary/secondary bevels...

    http://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/Juranitch1977Feb.htm

  5. #25
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    I'm not a fan of a knife buying glossary. When the question "what knife should I buy?" pops up it serves 2 purposes. Obviously, it let's more experienced members voice options based on relevant probing questions serving as introduction to the board. If the OP, is responded to " look at the knife buyers guide" it will become staid. In addition, it might possibly stymie the OP from posting in the future. Personally, I benefit from changing opinions about various knives. I recently reviewed old posts on KF regarding the Hattori forum gyuto. At the time, it was considered one of the best knives available. Just a few years later it doesn't make make many people's top 5 list. Our opinions change with our experiences. At times,I think the initial question "what knife should I buy?" can benefit the board as a whole more than the OP.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Pescador View Post
    I'm not a fan of a knife buying glossary. When the question "what knife should I buy?" pops up it serves 2 purposes. Obviously, it let's more experienced members voice options based on relevant probing questions serving as introduction to the board. If the OP, is responded to " look at the knife buyers guide" it will become staid. In addition, it might possibly stymie the OP from posting in the future. Personally, I benefit from changing opinions about various knives. I recently reviewed old posts on KF regarding the Hattori forum gyuto. At the time, it was considered one of the best knives available. Just a few years later it doesn't make make many people's top 5 list. Our opinions change with our experiences. At times,I think the initial question "what knife should I buy?" can benefit the board as a whole more than the OP.
    OH I'm not doing a glossary for knife buying, I'm doing a questionnaire. You know, to keep folks from posting "Hey guys I am new, I have some crappy knives, and I want good ones. What's a good brand?" I wouldn't think of permanently promoting or advertising one product or another.

  7. #27
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    Spike C
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  8. #28
    Senior Member spaceconvoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Pescador View Post
    I'm not a fan of a knife buying glossary...
    This is getting OT, and I don't know what Eamon is planning, but I agree. A guide focusing on specific knives would never be complete, and would be worthless if the noobs don't know what they're looking for in the first place.

    I think the main purpose of a noob's guide should be to explain the dis/advantages of different knife types and sizes, carbon vs stainless, soft vs hard steels, clad vs unclad, yo vs wa handles, etc. Those types of questions are timeless, and would cut down on the 'I want an all purpose knife, should I get a gyuto or a kiritsuke?' type of threads.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Martell View Post
    I know, almost every person says it wrong and it gets repeated wrong so it becomes fact but if check out some of the pro sharpener stuff as well as factory stuff and even the first book on sharpening ever written it all says otherwise. I'll see if I can dig up something online to reference.

    I, too have heard it both ways, but I think the way I listed(the primary being the one you grind first, not the one that cuts first) is more versatile. Allow me to illustrate!





    In this example, the bevels A and B are ground to match each other. They physically displace force in an identical manner, and they are geometrically performing the same function. The bevel C is added, and it moves the cutting edge. So if C is the cutting edge, and therefore the primary, and A is the other side of the cutting edge, then A would also be a primary bevel, and B would be secondary, despite the fact that A and C are identical in structure and function. Even if the bevel C is added, the bevels A and B still continue to distribute force balanced at the "old cutting edge", and bevel C does not(that's why screwy jobs like this steer to one side or another, but not nearly as severely as if the bevels A and B are assymetrical).

    Another problem is nomenclatural.

    If you grind in a standard double bevel, you have two primaries. Then you add an extra bevel at the cutting edge on both sides. Now the new ones are primary, the old are secondary. Then you grind another matching set at the cutting edge. Now the new ones are primary, the next are secondary, but what are the ones you ground first? Presumably the Tertiary bevel, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to count backward like this, because you grind the bevels off the face first, as well as the force being balanced and distributed through them first.

  10. #30
    GoogleFu San steeley's Avatar
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    The most important secret of sharpening : To this point, the blade has been ground to form a secondary edge face. But for a really sharp edge, you must form the primary-edge faces that come together to form the actual cutting edge. The secondary faces were formed on a coarse hone, since a good bit of metal might have had to be removed. Now, for the primary edge, switch to a fine hone and increase the angle. This is called double edging and is the secret of a really fine edge[IMG][/IMG]

    Is this what your are referring to Dave.
    A clever cook can make good meat of a whetstone.” Erasmus

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