thanks all...gonna start researching new chefs and clever...or two cleavers(I like a heavy and a thin}....ours are now old ones that our kids bought for holidays or something...but nuff of those...I do most of cooking and use my edc for lots of cutting but need those two knives to start....of course im not one to spend 500 just for looks..i know I can get some good steel for less than 100...if I was a pro chef of course the bling is good..im just a good cook...jeff