Kato & patina

Hi,

no, I am not going to ask how well das Kato from Maksim resist patina - I actually want to share my view on that. Since Matt kindly lent me his Kato Workhorse 240mm gyuto. The knife arrived in very good condition, but after cutting some fruit I saw patina building up. It got me a little nervous, but then I tried to use 1000 grit powered I had left over from flatting a stone and it proved to get rid of the patina without leaving scratches on the blade.

Below I show set of images that show the patina developing & changing. I have also realised that depending on the angle under which one photographs the knife the patina may look scary or barely visible, therefore I took some more photographs with different illumination too.

So, here ist he full set. I tried to get the same angle and light reflection for consistency. It is not perfect though. The photo shows some 100 mm of the blade (in from of the dragon):
(a) cutting & dicing 1 pineaple, 1 apple and 1 onion
(b) cleaning with stone powder
(c) cutting & dicing 1 apple and 1 pear
(d) dicing 4 onions
(e) cutting a few potatoes
(f) cutting and dicing one hokkaido pumpkin
(g) cleaning with stone powered



Since the photos above look quite dramatic (I used reflection of window light), here is another photo (a) before and (b) after cleaning (these correspond to (f) and (g) above). Here there was no direct light reflection off the blade and the difference is much less pronounced.



And one more comparison - here the Haburn AEB-L gyuto is included. Again - (a) is before and (b) after cleaning.



EDIT:

I nearly forgot. I did get some light browning when cutting onions. I believe if the patina would be allowed to set in, than this issue will disappear.

Matus, what were your reasons for not letting a carbon knife to build a proper patina?
…and also how does Kato compares to Haburn in cutting?

icanhaschzbrgr said:

Matus, what were your reasons for not letting a carbon knife to build a proper patina?

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Simple. This is not my knife. I have PM'ed Matt with some questions, but unless he will advise (allow) me otherwise, I will try to do my best to keep the knife in the same condition in which it arrived. If this were my knife, than I would probably allow the patina to build up - that it would look totally bad a$$

What could concern me in the long run though is the dragon - I love how it looks - it really is a piece of art. But it also may not be easy to keep dry and clean and should patina or rust start to form in the deep engraving, I would have hard time to figure out how to get rid of it.

icanhaschzbrgr said:

…and also how does Kato compares to Haburn in cutting?

Click to expand...

That will be answered in a separate thread

hey matus as i have already pmd you i use either baking soda with 8000 grit micro mesh and/or fine rust eraser to clean my knives including the kato .since i use my knives in pro kitchen i plan my prep in a way that acidic foods such as onions etc are last on the list, by this time the knife is rather unreactive.Then clean them at the end of every shift, this is obviously personal preference and your more thrn welcome to let a patina set in if you prefer that.

@ Matt, your PM box is full and I need your shipping address to be able to return the knife. Please send me your address via PM. Sorry I noticed this so late.

I am sorry for hijacking my own thread

I don't believe in the concept of a "proper patina," just as I don't believe in letting your copper pots go without polishing them. Always sounds like an excuse for not being clean, and taking care of your tools. Sorry.

I clean my Katos in soapy water as I handle them. If I miss something and a patina looks like it's coming, Bar Keepers Friend seems to do the job. For bad staining Simicrome is pretty good, but make sure you wash it off completely.

I guess the Japanese feel the same way because they also do not let them patina. However, unlike copper pans which stay nice and polished for aesthetics, carbon knives can benefit from a patina, like mentioned above. They are no less clean and usually perform clean-er, like the browning of the onions.

Agree. Of course you could use (ugh) stainless knives and not have any issues.

Since I am cooking chopped, diced, or sliced onions 99.999% of the time, this is not a problem for me...

designdog said:

I don't believe in the concept of a "proper patina," just as I don't believe in letting your copper pots go without polishing them. Always sounds like an excuse for not being clean, and taking care of your tools. Sorry.

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pretty much agree, none of the japanese guys i worked with thought knife patina was anything but filth, and lack of care.

designdog said:

I don't believe in the concept of a "proper patina," just as I don't believe in letting your copper pots go without polishing them. Always sounds like an excuse for not being clean, and taking care of your tools. Sorry.

Click to expand...

pretty much agree, none of the japanese guys i worked with thought knife patina was anything but filth, and lack of care.

Cultural/aesthetic differences aside- patina is far from filth. And it's not a sign of disrespect to your tools if you encourage said patina. I'd put forward the argument that it's a more efficient use of one's time in a professional environment, as well as prolonging the life of the knife, to allow said patina to form. Unless of course you want to invest in high end, properly ground/profiled stainless.

brainsausage said:

Cultural/aesthetic differences aside- patina is far from filth. And it's not a sign of disrespect to your tools if you encourage said patina. I'd put forward the argument that it's a more efficient use of one's time in a professional environment, as well as prolonging the life of the knife, to allow said patina to form. Unless of course you want to invest in high end, properly ground/profiled stainless.

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Agree To each his own. It's OK if you want to clean your Gyuto's after shift. I liked to cut everything to to get a good patina established. The staining of food etc. happens when a "Proper" patina has not formed yet. My dark grey gyuto's would last years doing banquet prep.

Matt, your PM box is full and I need your shipping address to return the knife (which is packed since more than 2 weeks). I have tried to contact you with help of admins - you should have an email too.

Sorry for bumping the thread.