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Thread: Abrasives in Micron Scale: Grand Logarithmic Grit Chart

  1. #11

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    knowing what i do about stone companies in Japan, i have reason to doubt quite a few values on there regarding various japanese products. I really wonder where many of the numbers came from.


  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark76 View Post
    Thanks a lot, this is very useful! It must have been a lot of work.
    I truly hope it will be useful to a wide audience. It proved to be much more work than I imagined.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Martell View Post
    One thing I'd like to note is that the very 1st person to ever do a grand unified abrasive chart on any forum was cbwx34 (Curtis). I believe that this all came from his idea and I'd like to see him get some credit for his contribution, even if only here.
    I will note that in the README. Do you have a link to his original?



    Quote Originally Posted by apicius9 View Post
    Very nice work, thanks! Just to better understand - what is the norm for ordinary American sandpaper?
    Most likely I belive it will be CAMI. (Coated Abrasive Manufacturers Institute.) Be aware that the standard used may vary within a product line. For example Norton Black Ice waterproof sandpaper is graded in CAMI, JIS, and FEPA-P, depending on the specific product. As noted in the README and described in http://www.uama.org/Abrasives101/101Standards.html there is also apparently an ANSI coated standard ("ANSI B74.18-1996, currently under revision") but despite effort I could not find any free specification for it. (From that page it appears to be close to JIS.) I did not feel like paying for an obsolete technical document. Plausibly the included ANSI standard might be used but it is actually intended for bonded or lose, not coated abrasives.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Martell View Post
    Where are the stones (abrasives) that we use on Japanese kitchen knives? I ask because there seems to be very little (just Shapton ?? & Naniwa Chosera) here that applies to what the member's here use. There's a LOT missing for this to be of much value to our discussions.

    I'm not trying to poo-poo on your shoes, I can see that you did a lot of work, but this is more aligned for the crowd that relies on guided sharpening devices and the like vs free handing on stones.
    If there is any available standard specified in or readily converted to median micron values I would like to include it. I believe that JIS 1998 is still the official standard for Japanese synthetic stones. However a number of manufacturers have chosen to use a different scale. The Shapton stones specify micron values directly. The Chosera stones are popular (esp. for guided sharpening?) and data for them was available. Also included that you did not mention are the Norton and Sigma Power Select II stones. If you have specific values for any other line of stones I can include them.

    Please understand, as detailed in the README, that with rare exception I will not be including values based on approximate or relative performance but only actual particle size distribution. The chart does/can/will not compare absolute abrasive performance between columns.



    Quote Originally Posted by chinacats View Post
    I can't seem to enlarge it on my phone to read the categories.
    You should be able to click on the chart in my original post for a direct link to the PNG image itself.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Martell View Post
    JIS is the Japanese standard but there's more it than that. From what I recall Pam talking about years ago s that there's actually two systems used in Japan to rate grits and from that comes some confusion when talking about or rating abrasives from there.

    If using the chart I see that the Naniwa 10k is rated just above JIS6000?

    The point I was actually referring to above in my previous post is that he's got some maker's info in the chart while leaving out so many others. I would either include them all or leave them all out and stick to the numbers.
    I have only seen one JIS abrasive grading standard. There is more than one revision, e.g. 1987 as well as 1998 but they are too similar to include both as I recall. Again if you have other information I will gladly revise the chart.

    Yes, the 10K Chosera just a little finer than the JIS 6000 standard. At least for the Chosera line Naniwa does not use the JIS standard which is a major reason for its inclusion in the chart.

    As a variation I can make a more compact chart that shows only official standards if there is demand. However my impression is that this will be of less use given the number of non-standard products on the market.



    Quote Originally Posted by chinacats View Post
    As to the chart, don't know how difficult it would be, but if you could compare just two at the time like on gator's steel site it may eliminate some of the difficulty in reading?
    It is probable that you want to use the chart in a way it is not intended to be used. Please see the README file. Intentionally the chart compares particle distribution numbers, NOT abrasive performance. It is simply not possible to compare abrasive performance with a single number.




    Quote Originally Posted by JBroida View Post
    knowing what i do about stone companies in Japan, i have reason to doubt quite a few values on there regarding various japanese products. I really wonder where many of the numbers came from.
    Please be specific. I welcome correction but I cannot work with vague assertions. There are only three specific Japanese lines included. Shapton provides values themselves. The Chosera values come from Clay Allison of Wicked Edge. The Sigma Power Select II values are from a Sigma Power retailer who related values stated by Sigma Power but only for that line. This was from a personal email so I would need permission to further disclose the source.


  3. #13
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    Correction to my earlier statement: "I have only seen one JIS abrasive grading standard." Reviewing my sources I see that there are different numbers for precipitation versus electrical resistance grading. The former stops at JIS 3000. At low grits they are identical but by 3000 they diverge significantly, particularly in the maximum particle size spec (which is not represented in my chart). I chose to include only the electrical resistance grading but I could include the precipitation values in a separate column if there is demand.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by apicius9 View Post
    Very nice work, thanks! Just to better understand - what is the norm for ordinary American sandpaper?
    I have updated the chart to include ANSI Coated values from B74.18-1996 as sourced from http://www.uama.org/Abrasives101/101Standards.html. This data was apparently available all along but I thought the described click-for-detail function was broken because my browser was set to block pop-up windows.


    Be aware however that high ANSI Coated grit numbers are apparently a deprecated standard as the 2006 revision of B74.18 does not include any values above 600, and what it does include match ANSI Bonded values.

    As always please see the README for additional and up-to-date details.

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