Suji as a main knife?

Hey everyone,

So this might sound like a weird or silly question but I'm wondering how well using something like a Suji 240 to 270mm would work for all around kitchen use? This would be for everyday home cooking, once and a while a few larger meals for friends.

I have noticed in a few threads here and there that a couple users mentioned using a Suji as their main knife. This is also referenced in one of Jon's (JKI) video's on the Gonbei Hammered series I believe. Basically, I'm wondering how well this would really work in a home environment assuming of course that you understand the shorter height of the blade and have a grip/holding style that allows for this. Also, remember reading a few places about a user here (CadillacJ I think) using a Suji as his "go to knife" for just about all stuff.

It's a new concept to me and having never used a Suji before am wondering how feasible/wise this might be. I've been using my 180mm Petty more and more for stuff and find it to work very well for a large variety of tasks except when things get a bit too long (need more length).

Anyhow, any thoughts on this?

Hey!
A couple of thoughts. I worked with a kid at a kaiseki restaurant whose knife work was impeccable, i mean really really good and he only ever used a suisin inbox honyaki 180 petty.
I personally like a 210 suji, it takes up less space and slices better than a gyuto. there's just one simple trick and you're all set.
instead of gripping the knife like you're used to, place your index finger over the spine of the blade for control. it doesn't take too much getting used to. and forget any kind of rock chopping. if you can keep your knife really sharp, put your finger up there and push cut you're good.
cheers!

oh and one more thing, with the objective of a suji as an all arounder, for convenience sake i'd suggest stainless or semi-stainless.

Purely personal preference when I say this

I have a 210 kagekiyo petty and use it for many task. I still can't resist pulling my 240 wantanabe gyuto...if fact when I was chopping spices yesterday I wished I had a 270 lol. I suspect I could use the petty for most taks, but really like my gyuto as well.

Depending on your tasks you could. You might need to bring out something else for certain tasks of course

I could use a 8" Henckels Chef for everything (and have in my young and foolish days). I don't use different knives for different tasks because I have to - I do it because I want to. I like slicing with a Suji, dicing with a Gyuto and doing other stuff with other knives. But that's me.

If you look at the "line knife" offerings from the last year they all combine functions of a Gyuto and Suji. Different makers emphasize the different qualities to optimize their vision of an ideal mix. If you want one knife to do it all this type of offering would be a good place to look.

Thanks for the replies so far everyone! Appreciate the various different takes and insights.

TheDisspossessed:
I have heard some great things about the Suisins and definitely are something I'm interested in, they look great and are well regarded. When you mention the kid using the 180mm petty for everything, does this include harder or tougher objects like Sweet Potato, Squash etc...? Or was his job mostly involving protein slicing and softer veggie perp?

Good points Daveb and Muffin, on the point of the line knife, are there any available for sale or do they tend to be made to order like from Ealy? Not overly familiar with the Line Knive's that are offered.

Reason I'm asking about this is that it's something new to me and that I'm not overly familiar with. Always like learning new stuff and am perpetually moving on to new knives, not because I need them or that anything is wrong with my old one's, just like trying new stuff.

I have a 210mm Itinomonn suji/petty that is my go to knife right now. I really like it, and like using it. I would hesitate to call it my main knife.

It is perfect for what I am doing now, expo and bailing out stations on prep and service as needed. I'm cutting herbs, rough chopping mirepoix, carving some cooked proteins, cutting veg garnishes, small dicing a few chilies and onions for stuff here and there.

If I went back to a day based around fish butchering, I would never use it. When I was doing that the only knives I would use for days at a time would be my debas and yanagibas. If I was (and sometimes am) called upon to do heavier veg prep I will pull out the 240mm gyutos as they are more efficient at that task. At home I really only ever use either a 210mm gyuto or a 6" sab.

As theDispossesed mentioned reactivity can bring you down on the line, so when I decided I was digging using something like this I special ordered a Heiji that was a cross between a 210mm suji and the heel height and approximate profile of my 6"Sab in semi stainless. I'm pretty excited about it, it will supposedly be done by January.

If you are interested, the knife I use now is from the initial group buy, but I think JNS sells these guys now. I recently took a comparison photo from when I first got the knife to now:

Day one



Five months of daily use later

check out Hiro Terada on youtube. looks like he uses a 210 suji for most things.

SolidSnake03 said:

Thanks for the replies so far everyone! Appreciate the various different takes and insights.

TheDisspossessed:
I have heard some great things about the Suisins and definitely are something I'm interested in, they look great and are well regarded. When you mention the kid using the 180mm petty for everything, does this include harder or tougher objects like Sweet Potato, Squash etc...? Or was his job mostly involving protein slicing and softer veggie perp?

Click to expand...

This was at Kajitsu in NYC, which all the food is basically vegan. So all veg work, including root veg and squash etc.
He also only ever sharpened it on a kitayama 8k, occasionally the arashiyama 6k.
you couldn't see the bevel on his knife it was crazy.

I use a misono Swedish carbon 240 suji for most thing at work. It's for when I just need to get stuff done. Of course I have a full kit with me when I have the time to use them but when it's busy on the line and prep it's the suji.

It seems to work for this guy (Hung Huynh): [video=youtube;xwciXwM_5FA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwciXwM_5FA[/video]

Great post everyone! Very helpful info and definitely quite useful. I have been looking into the "Line Knife" thing a bit and that sounds like it would be right up my alley in terms of what I'm interested in. I'm basically thinking of having a small Suji/Long Petty for just about everything minus breaking down a Pumpkin or something like that.

The Hiro Terada video's are pretty neat by the way, it looks like he is using some Kikuichi knife for everything?

I ended up talking with Mr. Ealy a good bit last night about his line knives and they sound really excellent. Any impressions on these? I know his stuff is well regarded but just wondering what peoples take on these would be? Considering one as an early Christmas gift to myself....

Also, I'm not tied to either Western or Wa handles, does either style have a particular preference in this type of knife? I know some of it is personal preference but would a Wa be detrimental or offer even less knuckle clearance?

Also, I'm definitely going Stainless or Semi-Stainless on this for the ease of use, I've used Carbon in the past and I just can't shake the silly paranoid fear that rust might be forming. I keep everything clean and dry but my paranoia makes me a bit uncomfortable around Carbon....

Del has a line knife available on his website

Noticed that, I'm very tempted by it.....

One of my slight reservations is if it would be thin enough and have that great effortless/laser like feel. Most of my past knives have been Kono HD2, Gesshin Ginga and similarly thin blades and I enjoy that cutting feel. Granted I could just get one of those but I always like trying different things...

I hear ya, some knives can be hefty, and still cut like a laser, its all in the grind my friend

True true!

Aside from this brief review
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/20509-Ealy-Line-Knife-A-quickie

I haven't seen much written about the line knives regarding reviews. Now I know Ealy has a great rep and I'm sure everything he puts out is quite good I just don't have a ton to go on right now info wise vs. some other very well known options (Suisin Inox Honyaki, Kono HD's and HH's etc...

can't go wrong with a ginga, for the price it's a very solid knife and you could sell it here in a sec if you ever wanted to trade up or what not.

All will depend on the proper use of the distal taper, and the blade being stiff enough.

For home use a Sugi will last many years. In production kitchens do not last as long as a Gyuto because much less steel. If you like the profile, cutting of Kono HD & Ginga Gyuto's, you will like the Sugi's too. Both quality stain resistant steels.

Good advice on the Ginga!

Keith, are you referring to a particular knife or the style itself of a sujihiki? I'm a bit confused, are you referring to the Kono HD and Ginga Suji's in particular?

Benuser, from what I'm managed to pick up, Suji's can definitely have some flex to them? But this is dependent on the specific Suji it's, not a particular trait on the knife style?

What about something more like a 210 petty. It has a different grind but similar shape. This gesshin ginga is what im talking about, would thr different grind make it more versatile?

SolidSnake03 said:

Benuser, from what I'm managed to pick up, Suji's can definitely have some flex to them? But this is dependent on the specific Suji it's, not a particular trait on the knife style?

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You're right. For general purpose I would use a stiff sujihiki. Don't expect it to be very thin. Food release though should than be OK as well. I feel uncomfortable with a lot flex, but for slicing proteins it may be acceptable. My Fujiwara carbon 270mm performs very well in general tasks; I would feel uneasy cutting hard vegetables with my thinner Nogent 250mm because of its flex.

210 Petty is definitely a great suggestion, I'm actually really looking to one of Ealy's Line Knives in 210mm, thinking that it might be a very good option.

Benuser: Is this the Suji you are referring to?
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html#FKH
For the price $80ish that looks like a great value! Does that Suji take a nice toothy edge and is fairly easy to sharpen up? If so it looks like it definitely may be worth trying especially for the price

Yeah, the 210 petty made me think of the "line knife" style which seems to be what you're after.

SolidSnake03 said:

Benuser: Is this the Suji you are referring to?
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html#FKH
For the price $80ish that looks like a great value! Does that Suji take a nice toothy edge and is fairly easy to sharpen up? If so it looks like it definitely may be worth trying especially for the price

Click to expand...

It is indeed. Sharpening is very easy, edge has always some bite. Grain is a bit coarser than with more refined carbons, but that should not be a problem with a slicer in Western cuisine. I take it up to 8k. Stuff is very reactive. Put a decent patina on it and you won't complain about discolouration and smell issues. And it's stiff and has a remarkable distal taper.

TheDispossessed said:

This was at Kajitsu in NYC, which all the food is basically vegan. So all veg work, including root veg and squash etc.
He also only ever sharpened it on a kitayama 8k, occasionally the arashiyama 6k.
you couldn't see the bevel on his knife it was crazy.

Click to expand...

Hey man,

Would you mind speaking on his sharpening practices more?

I have found that I like having small(er) bevels on my knives but have also noticed that I prefer a coarser grit finish on my gyutos. At my current gig I'm mostly using a 210mm stainless gyuto and generally only use a 1k stone. I find with regular stropping that edge will last me a week or two. I have a 210mm stainless Ginga petty/suji and I love it. Great knife. But I don't like putting it to the stones all that often (to help extend its life + b/c the added flex during service - although it doesn't flex that much). The idea of using only higher grit stones is interesting to me. Did you see him sharpening much? Would he only thin/sharpen at an extremely low angle? How often would he take it to the stones?

Thanks

Main thing is if working for you that's what counts. My work Gyuto's always did all my sharpening on Medium stones.

Single Bevels Polishing stones. Yanagiba's would sharpen after a heavy fish day on a 5K, later on got a Kitayama 8K. The SB's you are taking from sharp to razor edges. Don't need to go to lower grits unless with wear moving up bevel line.

You are correct with thin Sugi's over sharpening will wear them down, its a trade off when you wear them out get another one.

These days with high hrt. steel gyuto's like to finish off on 4K. Just personal preference, really no need to take gyuto's past medium stones.

Regarding the sharpening of kitchen knives, i tend to like an edge around 4k or so for daily use as well. Seems to hold up nicely and still have a good bit of refinement, the edge Jon put on one of my knives using the Gesshin 4k is steller!

Benuser, that sounds great! Did you force a patina like with mustard or just let it form naturally via use? Definitely interested in checking one of these out, maybe in a 240mm, not sure how well the 270 would work at home....

A 240 suji is my goto. I love the light nimble feel and the narrow width works better for most tasks I do. I mostly use a modified pinch to create knuckle clearance, but often I'll place my index on the spine.


Rick