Gyutou Overload (w/ questionnaire)

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyutou

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Wa

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
240mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Probably

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$350-400



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Vegetables (slicing, chopping, mincing), boneless meats. I have a Victorinox for chicken.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Addition to Shun 6" and Mac 8"

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
pointer(?)/pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Rocking, slicing, draw

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Size, edge retention, aesthetics

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Bamboo, wood

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
No

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Potentially



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
I'd like to add a 240mm Gyutou as an upgrade/complement to my existing 6" and 8" knives. I know this will require some retraining (e.g. I know rocking is not good for knives with a very hard edge), and some relearning (i.e. sharpening my own knives). I am a bit overwhelmed by the number of Gyutou options and have had difficulty narrowing down a good/smart choice. I've looked particularly at the:

Suisin Inox Honyaki
Masakage Koishi
Gesshin Genga

I find the first two in particular to be very pretty (esp. the Masakage), but then I read things like "better knives can be had for the money." So, what are those knives? And why are they better? Any tips, pointers, advice, or straight up recommendations would be most welcome. I am open to learning how to sharpen, especially if I can practice on the Shun/Mac until I'm confident (I live near Korin so I can have them sharpen until I'm ready). Also of note: I held the Misono UX-10 and Nenox VG-10 at Korin and didn't love them; something about the Japanese handle makes me happy.


Edit: oh yea, and what's the policy on keeping these in a knife block?

If you are looking for a laser (style of knife), the Konosuke is a great choice, but if you already like the Ginga go for it, as for sharpening start out on a combo stone like the king 1k/6 that will help you learn the correct angles without breaking the bank

I think all three of those are very solid choices. Suisin Inox Honyaki is a longstanding and well-respected knife, as is Gesshin Ginga (though both stainless and white appear OOS at the moment). I owned a Koishi for a while and thought it was a very nice knife. Can't say I regret selling it, but I think I would have been happy with it if I'd held on to it.

To get the best input from members, especially when trying to understand the difference between several knives, it's really critical to provide detailed answers to the aesthetics, comfort, and ease of use questions. It's very difficult to understand what you're looking for with your general responses. The examples are included because each of those characteristics differ between nearly every knife.

P.S. - You indicated that you probably need a stainless knife. The Masakages have a carbon steel core, which will patina and potentially rust if not cared for properly.

mhlee said:

To get the best input from members, especially when trying to understand the difference between several knives, it's really critical to provide detailed answers to the aesthetics, comfort, and ease of use questions. It's very difficult to understand what you're looking for with your general responses. The examples are included because each of those characteristics differ between nearly every knife.

P.S. - You indicated that you probably need a stainless knife. The Masakages have a carbon steel core, which will patina and potentially rust if not cared for properly.

Click to expand...

Sure. I think one thing I'm not quite clear on is how to take care of a non-stainless knife. I.e. I already don't let my knives sit out wet or with acid on them; is that enough? Can I wash a carbon steel knife with soap and water? Etc.

So, basically, if there's a carbon steel knife in my price range that's distinctly better than a stainless, and the answers to my questions above are yes, then I'm open to the idea. I actually like the idea of a patina forming as long as it doesn't harm my knife.

As for other stuff:

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Don't care much about the handle appearance beyond Japanese-style; simpler is probably better.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Lighter knife, good balance. Don't care about rounded spine. Not exactly sure what better handle shape means, since all the Japanese-style handles I've seen have looked pretty similar in shape.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Out of the box sharp would be great since I don't know how to do that yet myself, but I can always take it to Korin so it's not key. All of the other things sound like positives so I would want them; ease of sharpening would be nice since I'll be learning, but that seems incompatible with edge retention, which is more important to me.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
The longer the better

Hope that's helpful—since this is a bit of a change in concept from what I've had before, I'm not exactly sure of all the answers. On the other hand, since I'm open to learning something new, I think there aren't "wrong" answers.

Mild soap and water to clean it and then make sure it's dry before you store it, if you dig a patina, you can always force one with mustard which might help with reactivity, or just let it develop by cutting a lot of different ingredients, just don't leave it wet for too long

Korin sells the Suisin IH, suggest since they're close that you try one on for size. It will no doubt have nice f/f, with a nicer handle than the standard ho wood of knives in that price range. Some don't like that the kanji is laser etched on instead of the more distinct engraved.

The Suisin will compare well to the Gesshin Ginga, both will be lighter and considerably more nimble than your Shun. I've had both and liked both. And have used a Shun a lot. I can't speak to the Kochi as I've not had one though the stainless clad 240 is on my to do list.

Stainless clad have become my knives of choice with a little more heft than the mono stainless. Gengetsu, Heiiji, Yoshikane, Itinomonn, and Kochi are just some of the makers that offer stainless clad carbon or stainless clad stainless.

Don't know much on the Suisin or the Masakage but have a Gesshin Ginga 270mm in White # 2. I love the knife. Is definitely thin and light, but still feels sturdy enough for my uses (home cook). Holds a great edge (at least as good as I can put on it) with only needing some light stropping to replenish, and just generally is a great joy to cut with.

I have a feeling it will be sticking with me for quite a long time. Which is a little ironic given I am drawn to "flashy" knives.

Welcome Fred!

Of your original choices, I've only owned the SIH which is a fine knife. Outstanding fit and finish and a very comfortable handle (if I recall it was a bit on the large size like I enjoy). I'm pretty sure the Ginga will also have the same level of finish...they're both high end knives. They will likely both feel very light or laser like

If your knife habits are good then I would recommend trying a carbon knife. It will be a joy to sharpen, u you get a cool patina, and it will get crazy sharp. My suggestion would also be the Kochi and I would recommend the V2 kurouchi. The kurouchi finish will protect a good portion of the knife face while leaving the area near the edge to patina. It will come sharp but if you ask Jon he will probably hook you up with a fresh sharpening before he ships. It's a good way to see the knife's potential.

You could use the remainder of your budget on his combination stone and be set for some time.

If you are close to Korin, they can give you a chance to try several to see how they feel in person as well as help you on your sharpening journey. If you are willing to try carbon, the Masamoto Shiro-ko Wa Gyuto looks like it fits your budget. I have found Korin staff easy to deal with both on the phone and in person when I was on a trip to NYC. Plus they will put a great edge on it when purchased while you watch. Tell us what you decide on.

Sounds like Yoshikane SKD (e.g. from Epicedge.com) could be a solution for you too. It has semi-stainless core clad with stainless. Nice and easy to sharpen and holds the edge very nicely. Price is OK too.

Yoshikane SKD from EE is way over the OP's budget, I.e. $150-200 over.

It's not at all. OP stated budget = $350-400

Yoshi SKD = $279, not taking into account EE's 10% discount for forum members.

Still one of the great value J-knives.

Mangelwurzel said:

Yoshikane SKD from EE is way over the OP's budget, I.e. $150-200 over.

Click to expand...

whoops, sorry. I have mixed up two different threads.

Matus said:

whoops, sorry. I have mixed up two different threads.

Click to expand...

Seems like I made a mistake out of mistake

So - the Yoshi SKD proposal stands

It is almost overwhelming the number of gyutos to choose from. All of them will get extremely sharp. Each maker is trying to emphasize characteristics that set their knifes apart from the competition. Characteristics include: Ease of sharpening, edge retention, grind, profile, geometry, type of steel, etc....

Choosing a knife comes down to personal taste. The more questions you can answer about your needs, style, technique, will help you make a decision. How many people do you cook for? Do you like to have parties? What is the size of your prep space? What kind of foods do you like to prepare? Do they tend to need more chopping or slicing?

After you get an idea about the type of knife that will fit your style. That will narrow the list down, but there will be quite a few knifes to choose from. You have an advantage in being close to Korin. The sales person should help you further narrow down your list. Pick the knife that feels right to you.

It will probably take two or three purchases, before you find the knife that fits your style. Part of it, is experience, how do you what you like until you try? Buy/Sell/Trade, is a good place to try out knifes at a reasonable price.

Don't be too concerned about the forum's opinion on brands. Every one will have its supporters and detractors. The forum has its trends. Stuff that was popular, may quickly fall out of style, which leads to good deals.

Jay

+1 to above answer by Jay.

There are tons of option and most of them are good. Nobody except you could tell which one would be the best for you. So you'd need to start with something.
For a thin light knives you can't go wrong with Ginga or Konosuke.
If you prefer something heavier and sturdier look at itinomonn or you may just call Jon (from Japanese Knives Imports) and get some good advices.

But regardless of your choice, I'm pretty sure you'd be happy with it.

I think it is cool to see persons willing to try a quality carbon Gyuto. I concur with the advice to give Jon at JKI a call. Also his online sharpening video's are top notch. You will have to get a stone & learn freehand, the good news is carbon is easy to sharpen.

Since you are near Korin go in and check out the carbon gyuto's they have. Some prefer western handles while others like Wa's it helps to hold the knife see how it feels. I believe they offer sharpening classes, one on one is a great way to learn freehand.