Some advice Please

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Kitchenchem

Kitchenchem

KKF Supporting Member
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In November before I joined this forum I purchased a Shun Dual Core 8" kiritsuke for $227.00 plus tax on Amazon. The order has not shipped, because it was an advanced order. I still have the ability to cancel. That knife on Amazon is now $299.00. After reading this forum in detail, I've learned that there are possibly better knives I can purchase. Should I cancel?
 
This is what they say:
"About the Shun Dual Core series: Until now, it was considered almost impossible to create layered Damascus from two premium-quality stainless steels. But what was impossible is now a reality—and Shun is proud to bring it to your kitchen. The Shun Dual Core series features a Damascus blade made from two premium-quality, high-carbon stainless steels. Seventy-one alternating micro layers of high carbon, high chromium VG10 and VG2 stainless steels are roll-forged to produce a finer grain in the steel and to give it both strength and beauty. The laminated steel is then hot forged to create the herringbone pattern that allows the layers to alternate along the cutting edge"
 
For that money you can get a very nice knife around these parts. You can even likely have it in time for Christmas.

I would give Jon a call at Japanese Knife Imports (SoCal) and see what he has that would be a better fit than the Shun's (likely has a few options that would put a smile on your face).

Cheers
 
VG10 can be a great steel, but Shuns from my experience, have not hit the heat treat square on the head, so since you are in AZ, I would contact Jon @ (Japaneseknifeimports.com) since he is in cali, he can get u something a lot better for 300$$
 
Shun knives are disdained by many forum members because of the poor profile of the Classic series - more a Germanic profile than the French/Japanese profile that is favored. The kiritsuke-tipped gyuto you have on order does not suffer from that problem.

The "dual core", VG2 and VG10 in a true damascus construction is intriguing. The only other knives I'm aware of that are made like that are the Echizen, and they are almost twice the price of the Shun.

Shun knives have outstanding fit and finish, that you will be hard pressed to match for $227.

For the price, I'd be tempted to leave things as they are.

Rick
 
No advantage from such a Damascus is defined. Damascus is largely considered cosmetic and San-Mai is largely considered comparable if not better in performance at a lower cost. Having dual core seems like it would have inconsistent results on the stones, and only be as good as the steel being used in a particular part of the blade edge. -It screams gimmick to me.

I'd cancel. VG10 isn't quite the super steel it used to be. You can find superior PM steels cheaper even from JKI (reputable dealer).
 
the_edge said:
No advantage from such a Damascus is defined. Damascus is largely considered cosmetic and San-Mai is largely considered comparable if not better in performance at a lower cost. Having dual core seems like it would have inconsistent results on the stones, and only be as good as the steel being used in a particular part of the blade edge. -It screams gimmick to me.

I'd cancel. VG10 isn't quite the super steel it used to be. You can find superior PM steels cheaper even from JKI (reputable dealer).
Click to expand...

The damascus is not "strictly cosmetic". Have you any experience with a knife having true damascus construction? I have. It's not a "gimmick".
 
the_edge said:
VG10 isn't quite the super steel it used to be.
Click to expand...

I'm more curious how VG-10 has degraded over the years? Does Gator know about this? VG-10 then and VG-10 now?

Your certainly entitled to your opinions and are encouraged to share them. When you present them as fact, please don't get miffed if they're not treated as such.
 
Technically, it's all "Damascus Pattern" steel as true Damascus steel (a mixture of wrought iron and simple carbon steel from wood fired smelters, folded many, many times at the forge) hasn't been made for a millenium or two. Traditional samauri swords are made in similar manner, although not in the same way Damascus steel was.

Damascus pattern clad steel is just that -- knife steel with layer of material with a pretty pattern welded to it. Plain steel or stainless steel or wrought iron will work just as well.

I'm not so sure I'd want a knife with Damascus patterning on the edge, there is no way to avoid have the edge made up of two different steels that will sharpen, cut, and wear differently. A single steel composition knife would, to my mind, have a more consistent edge.

VG-10 makes excellent kitchen cutlery. Maybe won't hold and edge as long as some of the powdered metal steels, but I suspect the improvements are minor compared to run of the mill department store knives.

Peter
 
psfred said:
Technically, it's all "Damascus Pattern" steel as true Damascus steel (a mixture of wrought iron and simple carbon steel from wood fired smelters, folded many, many times at the forge) hasn't been made for a millenium or two. Traditional samauri swords are made in similar manner, although not in the same way Damascus steel was.

Damascus pattern clad steel is just that -- knife steel with layer of material with a pretty pattern welded to it. Plain steel or stainless steel or wrought iron will work just as well.

I'm not so sure I'd want a knife with Damascus patterning on the edge, there is no way to avoid have the edge made up of two different steels that will sharpen, cut, and wear differently. A single steel composition knife would, to my mind, have a more consistent edge.

VG-10 makes excellent kitchen cutlery. Maybe won't hold and edge as long as some of the powdered metal steels, but I suspect the improvements are minor compared to run of the mill department store knives.

Peter
Click to expand...

Peter,

"Technically", you're wrong. Yes, most of the damascus knives are san mai construction, with the "pretty pattern" forge welded to a core steel that is the edge. However, there are some blades that have no core steel, and are what I choose to call "true" damascus. Devin Thomas has made a couple, as has Del Ealy. The Shun under discussion is another, though I suspect that the material is mass produced at a steel mill rather than pounded out a blade at a time.

The behavior of these knives, that the edge "will sharpen, cut, and wear differently" is, in my limited experience, a positive attribute. The edge feels like it has more "tooth", and the time between touchups is longer.

I think you've got "damascus" confused with "wootz", but that's another topic.

Rick
 
If you've already paid the lower price I'd keep it. If they get the heat treat right the combination of VG-10 and SG2 sounds very interesting. As previously stated, Shun's f&f is excelent, and the profile of their kiritsuke looks pretty good.

Be well,
Mikey
 
Pensacola Tiger said:
The damascus is not "strictly cosmetic". Have you any experience with a knife having true damascus construction? I have. It's not a "gimmick".
Click to expand...

I haven't had an experience with the Holy Spirit, but others say they have. I'm not a fan of Ginsu or Cutco; but others are. I'm happy with mass produced wines, and dried pastas, but others aren't. Everyone has their opinions; can you point me to an objective review on Damascus steel that isn't opinion? -I'd sincerely appreciate it.
 
I have never known Rick to provide anything other than accurate insight based on his own first hand experience and research. Count me as someone he's enlightened and corrected more than once.
 
the_edge said:
I haven't had an experience with the Holy Spirit, but others say they have. I'm not a fan of Ginsu or Cutco; but others are. I'm happy with mass produced wines, and dried pastas, but others aren't. Everyone has their opinions; can you point me to an objective review on Damascus steel that isn't opinion? -I'd sincerely appreciate it.
Click to expand...

You're looking for an objective review that isn't an opinion? *** does that mean? The man you quoted has owned/still owns enough of these knives that you just got your objective review--you just haven't figured it out yet;)
 
Pensacola Tiger said:
The damascus is not "strictly cosmetic". Have you any experience with a knife having true damascus construction? I have. It's not a "gimmick".
Click to expand...

Rick, could you elaborate on this for me? My reading--which is not the same thing as knowledgeable experience--has suggested that due to the purity of modern alloy production this is purely aesthetic.

Well, I have heard a couple of members here talk about stickion/release WRT damascus, now that I think about it.
 
Did you ever get the knife? It's on sale at Williams Sonoma for $240.

I was wondering if you like it and how it compares with other knives you have.

Thanks!
 
OT: I thought true damascus was a type of steel from ancient Greece that was not in fact forge welded but just had impurities that created a surface pattern? and what we tend to call damascus is the forge welded folding patterns. I know, just some history. I could be wrong.
 
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