Monosteel vs Honyaki

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

HPoirot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
58
Reaction score
0
What's the difference between these 2?

Are all honyakis monosteel, or are all monosteels honyaki?

What characteristics do these give?
 
I'm not too knowledgeable on the subject, but as far as I know, all (I believe mizu) honyaki are monosteel. All monosteels are not honyaki.

Honyaki will have a hamon as it has been differentially hardened. Suisin Inox Honyaki is not differentially hardened.

They seem to be built for pro use. Very hard edges that last but have a reputation as being fairly difficult to sharpen in relation to a monosteel blade of the same steel. Likely even more difficult to thin.

I owned one in V2 and didn't think it too difficult to sharpen, but never thinned it.
 
That was very clear!

So, if a knife was labelled Honyaki or 本焼, but didn't have a hamon, it's safe to assume it hasn't been differentially harden?

Does non differentially hardened monosteel give benefits over a cladded steel?
 
It is possible that the hamon is there but hard to see (you should see it in person) depending on the steel type and the amount of polish on the blade.

Someone who knows the why's can explain the benefit of honyaki--my experience was a harder knife with less chipping. The spine area remains less hardened but not sure of the benefits of this--I seem to remebmer hearing that it can be difficult to do without bending the blade.

The major benefit in my mind of cladded steel is the ease of thinning. The cladding is often more reactive than the core steel which can be fun for a home user--maybe not so much for a pro.

I believe everyone should own at least one of each style--I just need to replace my long gone honyaki. :idea2:
 
To my best knowledge not all (mizu) honyaki have visible hamons. Singatirin from JNS are mizu honyaki but doesn't have the typical homon. Honyaki are, however, diferentially hardened monosteel blades. 'Monosteels' are 'just' monosteel. The diferential hardening makes the honyaki blade softer and more prone to absorb shocks in the top (softer) part. This makes the blades less brittle and thus less prone to braking. The hamon usually comes from when the smith apply a clay mixture to the blade during hardening. For further check out Criss Andersons WIP posts. He makes mizu honyaki knives.
 
I'm getting the feeling that 'less prone to breaking' also means 'less easy to sharpen'. Am i making the right assumption?

Very useful info here guys, keep them coming!
 
I'm getting the feeling that 'less prone to breaking' also means 'less easy to sharpen'. Am i making the right assumption?

Very useful info here guys, keep them coming!

less prone to breaking = easier to sharpen
 
Here is opinion of yet another amateur. The honyaki knives I have seen have the hamon line somewhere midway between spine and the cutting edge - that means that most of the time your stones will only contact the hardened steel, so it is probably not going to be particularly easy to sharpen. Also - because of the differential hardening the knife is hardened to high HRC - more than it would be reasonable to harden a normal monosteel knife as the knife would be too easy to break. With the differential hardening the spine remains softer and thus offers more toughness to the knife. But since the cutting edge is very hard - these knives need to be used properly not to chip or otherwise damage the cutting edge. One will probably not find workhorse honyaki knife. So much for what I understood from reading here on KKF.
 
this doesn't really answer the question but here's a video of how they do the hamon on a katana and what it does for the blade… check 21:25 mark… [video=youtube;VE_4zHNcieM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE_4zHNcieM"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE_4zHNcieM[/video]
 
I stumbled upon a clip from youtube the other day where one of the respectable makers from Japan made a Usuba honyaki.
He didn't use any clay making the hamon lines when hardening steel, instead he used a red hot wide plier with the right pattern to do hamon lines after tempering in the forge

quite interesting and i'm pretty sure same result is achieved softening the matrix near the spine and tang
 
Not all differentially heat treated knives hamon will be visible.(at that many steels can be differentially heat treated but will still not throw ahamon because they are too deep hardening) It takes a certain level of polish and even then if its power buffed it can be completely washed out.At the same time it may show at 110 grit right off the belt.Differentialy hardening also does not have to be done with clay..Its easily done with time and temp alone..Its what we use now..I think it throws a much more organic hamon than clay, though with the right steel(W2,1086M) and temp you can almost write your name on the blade..It takes hours of polishing to make a hamon really come to life..
 
Back
Top