Help me find my next knife - a nakiri

Hi All,

New member here. I've been using a Victorinox Forschner as my main daily use knife for years now (home cook for a family of five with lots and lots (I mean A LOT) of vegetable processing.) Been using it as my main knife while practicing my sharpening skills with it and have recently purchased a carbon steel Kramer by Zwilling gyuto. Love the sharpness of my new knife (and the heft for root veggies) but am getting accordion cuts with it (maybe because it has a belly and I like to push cut straight up and down?) Thinking a nakiri would be a perfect next knife. I also own a CCK cleaver which I enjoy but find a touch too unwieldy. I'm beginning to think the world's most perfect nakiri doesn't exist. Something that gets crazy razor sharp easily, stays sharp for an extraordinarily long time, never ever rusts, won't ever chip and nothing would ever stick to it. :laugh: Too much to ask for? Honestly, though, my main focus would be for it to retain its sharpness for a long period of time without chipping. Sticking would be the next concern. I am open to any/all steel and handle types. Up to $200. Recs?

Sherri

Sorry,
forgot to do this:

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Nakiri

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Either but have a slight preference towards Japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
165mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
Absolute max $225


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Chopping vegetables

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
None - adding to existing arsenal

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Push Cutting

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Edge retention, good food release

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?


Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Yes - I use maple end grain and edge grain boards

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

My only thought is that you may find a 165 a bit short, I would suggest looking at a 180.

Shig kurouchi. got one after many recommended watanabe, it's awesome.

JNS when they're in stock would be best bet,
also Rakuten, that's where mine came from, cost under $200 to my door no customs fees.
put shigefusa into the rakuten search field and a shop name called nshinkai or similar will come up as well as jump, i bought from the former, good transaction had the knife within a week.
and let me just say, that knife has the most wicked distal taper i've ever seen, it's scandalous

"jumi" not jump

TheDispossessed said:

Shig kurouchi. got one after many recommended watanabe, it's awesome.

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Sorry to thread hijack, but do you experience any wedging on carrots, potatoes, etc, with the Shig? It looks a fair bit thicker than the Watanabe.

it certainly doesn't sail through root veg, so in a word yes some wedging.
I don't have experience with a thinner nakiri for comparison but i'm more than happy w my shig.
IMO it's a matter of balance and compromise sometimes, and the shig acts and is thin enough while also having some weight and substance which i like.

also i get really put off by makers who use plastic ferrules on $200 knives. for a zakuri it's totally acceptable, watanabe and terayasu , get the f### outta here with that.

I thought all Watanabe's pro series knives use horn...

I would get the Watanabe. I love mine! The only downside is that it is not stainless http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/nakkiri.htm
If you feel like, you can ask the maker to change the plastic bolster to a buffalo horn one.

Last year I inquired wrt the watanabe pro, this was the reply:

165mm has horn hilt.
180mm are plastic hilt.
Blades are same material and finish. Both thickness are almost same.

JPY7,000 extra for chestnut with horn of Nakkiri 180mm.

Marcelo Amaral said:

I would get the Watanabe. I love mine! The only downside is that it is not stainless http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/nakkiri.htm
If you feel like, you can ask the maker to change the plastic bolster to a buffalo horn one.

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Japanese Knife Imports has a few offerings that meet your size and budget constraints. This would be my first choice, stainless clad SKD:

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...pe/nakiri/gesshin-uraku-165mm-skd-nakiri.html

Do agree with some of the others above that I find a 180 more useful than a 165, and that I like my Watanabe a lot. If you buy one and like it you can have it personalized with a custom handle. If you don't like it you can sell it and recover almost all of your initial cost. To properly play with a lot of knives you must be either wealthy or fickle. Most of us are very fickle.:cool2:

Thanks everyone for responding. Curious to know why clad knives are being recommended? What's their benefit? Is it solely for aesthetic reasons? I always figured if I have to wipe down the edge, then it's no biggie to wipe down the entire blade. The patina on a carbon doesn't bother me at all.

sherrib said:

Thanks everyone for responding. Curious to know why clad knives are being recommended? What's their benefit? Is it solely for aesthetic reasons? I always figured if I have to wipe down the edge, then it's no biggie to wipe down the entire blade. The patina on a carbon doesn't bother me at all.

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Part of your opening was "never ever rusts" Soft iron cladding is typically much more reactive than the core steel. The edge of my SS clad watanabe pro nakiri (18 cm, I really like the size) is not very reactive (compared to the soft iron cladding of my moritaka petty)

When you go to thin your knives (as a regular part of your sharpening routine) you will find the clad knives much easier to remove metal.

I bought this knife, the Murata Buho 165mm Nakiri from cktg with the intent of rehandling it, since I am not a fan of the handle and wanted to try and make one. I love this knife. It is very sharp and thin and is very useful. I recommend it.

The contribution that I can make in this thread is to encourage you to get one. Some people argue correctly that you can do anything you can do with a Nakiri plus more, however, if you have one, you probably will find yourself going for it more often than not because it is fun and very useful to have (some people compare it to the Chinese cleavers in terms of usefulness and versatility) and it is optimized for vegetable prep. I do have one that I absolutely love but it is Carter kurouchi in white steel and it is rare to find them as he does not do them very often (i was very lucky to stumble upon one), however, other in this thread have made very good suggestions for Nakiris. I will add that mine is 159 mm and I do not particularly miss the 180 mm size, which means that 165 mm would be probably fine (for me) if that was what I found to buy. I definitely would choose a very thin blade for a nakiri for most prep items and leave big vegetables for a gyuto...

I'd certainly say the nakiri was a knife I had long written off as superfluous but fell in love as soon as I used it.

Casaluz said:

The contribution that I can make in this thread is to encourage you to get one. Some people argue correctly that you can do anything you can do with a Nakiri plus more, however, if you have one, you probably will find yourself going for it more often than not because it is fun and very useful to have (some people compare it to the Chinese cleavers in terms of usefulness and versatility) and it is optimized for vegetable prep. I do have one that I absolutely love but it is Carter kurouchi in white steel and it is rare to find them as he does not do them very often (i was very lucky to stumble upon one), however, other in this thread have made very good suggestions for Nakiris. I will add that mine is 159 mm and I do not particularly miss the 180 mm size, which means that 165 mm would be probably fine (for me) if that was what I found to buy. I definitely would choose a very thin blade for a nakiri for most prep items and leave big vegetables for a gyuto...

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Thank you Casaluz. Just curious to know. I do a lot of vegetable prep with hard vegetables. Besides the usual onion, celery, carrot, I also do lots of turnips, kohlrabi, parsnips, beets, etc. Would a thin nakiri do well with these or should I be looking for a heavier/thicker nakiri (or is it recommended NOT to use a nakiri for these vegetables??)

If I were to do a lot of prep like the one you mention I would probably use a gyuto (or a longer, wider and thicker Nakiri than the one I have because it is rather smalish for that purpose) as those would probably benefit from a push cut for strenght as opposed to a vertical chop using the Nakiri, however a larger Nakiri like the one suggested By chinacats (i.e a 180 mm and I might even look into a 195mm) might make unnecesary to use a Gyuto. In my opinion, The rectangular shape of the blade makes the Naikiri structurally stronger and appropriate for dealing with those vegetables without having to go to a large cleaver. My very limited understanding of Chinese cutlery is that the rectangular cleaver shape relies on the structural strenght making them very versatile for different types of prep, with the thickness of the blade chosen depending on the specific application and the thinner ones chosen for vegetables.

The other benefit of using a nakiri instead of a cleaver is that most cleavers have a bit of belly to them (the profile is arced) so with a cleaver you would still have a problem with accordion cuts. Get a nakiri with a nice flat profile. I noticed that the Gesshin Uraku nakiri has a relatively small flat spot.

here you go i think this is just what your looking for


http://amzn.to/1yXServ

amazon has alot of nakiri if thats what you have decided on

I've sharpened a few of their folders in Vg10. They were pretty nice. Jon has several options with great steel for less $$ and look there first.

Nakiri Update. Not being able to make up my mind, I ended up getting a Tojiro DP stainless nakiri for now. It was a fantastic value and I figured I would have it, use it and see if I like the shape before "upgrading". I must say, I should have gotten it much much sooner. I love it for vegetable prep!

Fun to hear your update. YOu sound like you might be smitten.
Out of curiosity, do you know which CCK it is that you have and what about it made it less than ideal for your needs? If it is one of the heavier models then no need to explain, i get it.
Cheers to your new tool.

I have the CCK 1303 which weighs in at 9.55 ounces. The height of the blade is 92mm. Compare that to the nakiri which weighs 7.2 ounces with a 44.5mm height (half). The CCK is great for many things. But I do a lot of vegetable prep at home and felt that something a little less unwieldy for everyday would work better. I do love the nakiri shape and will most definitely get a carbon one some day.

Does anyone know what the 180mm Professional Watanabe Nakiri weighs?

Just weighed mine at 187.7 grams