After 20+ year wait, I finally built my set. How did I do?

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Geopatriot

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I don’t exactly remember the source of the inspiration, but about three weeks ago I got the idea that I needed a boning knife to help with the super thick rib-eye steaks that are sold where I live, as well as with breaking down chickens, which we often buy whole. I’m an American expat living overseas in a location where the skilled butcher profession pretty much doesn’t exist. One thing led to another and I got the idea that after 20+ years, NOW is the time to finally build a knife collection worthy of my cooking skills. I'm not a professional, just someone who likes to cook at home. I’ve been using a no-name, industrial grade chef’s knife that was certainly capable all of these years, but was recently ruined because in addition to not having skilled butchers, the country where I live has metal grinders who don’t know the first thing about knife sharpening.

I quickly got seduced by Shun and then Miyabi. The more I read, the more I realized that there is no such thing as the perfect knife or the perfect brand. Because I cannot go into a local high-end knife shop, I had to make my selections sight unseen based on reviews and pictures. On one hand I wanted to spread my risk and on the other hand, I was very curious about several manufacturers and wanted to see how they all compared to each other. I wanted to experience different manufacturers rather than have one “low cost” matching set. I quickly got carried away and then realized that to make this all worthwhile, I would have to commit to sharpening my own blades with Japanese water stones. Everything is already on its way, but it probably won’t arrive until the end of March and I’m really curious how the knowledgeable and respected brethren (and sisters) on this site will evaluate my selections.

I picked knives for the tasks that are common in my kitchen, not because of some marketing pitch. In other words, they are likely to get good use and not just to fill the knife block. Although most of these are Japanese, I could have easily been happy with a set of Wusthoff Classic or Messermeister Meridian Elite. I went with Japanese geometry and steel (mostly) because I like high performance things. However, although I respect the strengths of carbon, I wasn’t ready to go that far at this early point in my journey.

So here’s what I did and I invite you to rip in with comments on what I did wrong and what I might have done right:

1.) Shun Classic 6-in. Gokujo Boning/Fillet Knife – I’m excited about what this might be because it looks so beautiful, and I can imagine how this knife would work on ribeye’s, chicken and fileting salmon, but I’m wondering if I wouldn’t have been better off with a Garasuki by another company – not for the salmon, but for breaking down poultry.

2.) Tojiro DP Damascus 7-in. Nakiri Knife – I went with this because Tojiro seemed like a good value for a respected no-frills Japanese knife company known for good quality.

3.) Miyabi Kaizen 9.5-in. Chef's Knife – Somehow I liked this series after watching the Knife Sharpening YouTube Video by Make Sushi (Davy Devaux). I was interested to see how Zwilling was able to bring German Engineering and Manufacturing skills to the making of a well-crafted Japanese knife.

4.) Miyabi 7000Pro 4" Kodeba – Here’s where I went a bit crazy. I was really intrigued by the 70% discount on this top-of-the range, Miyabi by Zwilling. I didn’t really need this knife, but I wanted to see what the very best was like and I do purchase a fair amount of fish that needs to get broken down and filleted. I also thought this might be a good small knife for everyday things rather than pulling out the 9.5 Chef’s Knife, such as chopping garlic or cutting a chicken breast into cubes.

5.) Shun DM0715 Classic 2-1/2-Inch Bird's Beak Knife – Bought this for the wife so she might share my appreciation for these knives. Fact is, she hates peelers and does all her fruits and potatoes with a $5 KitchenAid paring knife.

6.) Friedr. Dick 1905 Exclusive Series 8-Inch Slicer – I wanted a slicer for roasts and hams at a reasonable price. I was also intrigued by this German knife-maker with an excellent reputation and reviews, but limited awareness in the U.S. I had so many to choose from, so in the end it was the beautiful handle and design of the 1905 series that got me.​

I think most people on this forum have a sense of what this group of knives ended up costing me. I’d like some qualitative comments and if this post generates some activity, I’ll post the total price a bit down the road. Having spent a good amount thus far (plus the cost of sharpening stones), I think this will probably satisfy my long-held desire for quality kitchen knives for a few more years at least!
 
Some redundancy with the knives, but I'm not one to talk. I have 5 gyutos and 2 chinese cleavers! I just think that a good petty knife could do boning tasks and paring tasks. The slicer is too short at 8". I see a lot of vg10 which isn't my favorite to sharpen. Read up on the forum posts about sharpening and you'll be fine. Welcome to the addiction.
 
I haven't used enough of these knives to comment too much. Tojiro are a great entry level knife. Good quality no nonsense.

As for the myabi deba I wouldn't call it "the very best " that's for sure.

Don't be shy or concerned about how much you've spent. Plenty of members here would and have spent that amount of cash on a single knife. Regularly!
As for satisfying your desires... Yeah about that. If you've got the bug it's a permanent thing ! There is no satisfying it there are an infinite amount of knives to try

Oh and welcome!
 
Some redundancy with the knives, but I'm not one to talk. I have 5 gyutos and 2 chinese cleavers! I just think that a good petty knife could do boning tasks and paring tasks. The slicer is too short at 8". I see a lot of vg10 which isn't my favorite to sharpen. Read up on the forum posts about sharpening and you'll be fine. Welcome to the addiction.

I agree about the slicer length & vg-10 :)
I personally use 240mm & 270mm for slicers & my preferred steels rank a lot higher on the sharpenability & fine edge taking scales ;)

Still, these are good step up from the no-name knife! My first J-knife was a Mac, which blew my mind at the time but is now being borrowed by a young couple as my taste in knives got more advanced. I'm now about $3,000 deep, and that's peanuts to some, haha!
 
I'm guessing if OP had asked for suggestions here first, he would have ended up with quite a different kit. Not that that's good or bad...but it's odd to see people buying a bunch of knives and then asking a community "how they did".

Guess it's an easier way to satisfy confirmation bias than just reading Amazon reviews and such.
 
Welcome! I can assure you that you will find great pleasure in your new knives. You will get some comments from experienced members about how they would have made different choices, but that's because they ARE experienced knife geeks. My first foray outside the comfortable world of Zwilling and Wusthof was a Shun Classic 9in slicer, and it was far and away the sharpest and coolest kitchen knife I ever owned up to that point. Then I got to thinking "what else is out there?". A little over 2yrs later my knife collection is worth more than my truck and I wouldn't even think of buying a Shun, but that does not mean I regret buying that first one. Shun and Global are probably the top gateway drugs for this particulare addiction. I guess what I'm saying is don't let the comments that get posted make you think you made the wrong choice, you've simply made your FIRST choice. Oh, and you're going to need a small shovel (a surplus 'entrenching tool' works great), the rabbit hole starts to get tight real quick, but you'll never even consider backing out:D. Again, welcome and enjoy your new knives (and watch Jon's sharpening videos).

A hui hou,
Mikey
 
For something that will see the amount of use the chefs will, consider the Hattori as its VG10 is much better. Shun is also unreliable with their heat treat, and their return policy may present problems where you are because of shipping, but here I feel perhaps you don't need t be so concerened, but just understand it will chip if worked around bone without caution. The German knife is not only too short, but its steel is unexceptional and too soft. Fujiwara and Tojiro are good inexpensive choices here.


Rick
 
Hi. I think you will have a lot of fun with your collection. We all have to start somewhere and you have obviously chosen what suits you. I started in a similar way about 15 years ago, having used decent quality German knives for years I suddenly decided I wanted to go Japanese. I bought some Kasumi and Shun and thought they were great: I still do really in a way. But this knife thing becomes an addiction (as does sharpening) and I eventually bought some imported non-carbon and then in eth search for perfection I started going to Japan and buying very specialised knives sometimes with similar blades in different steels. Gets expensive!

I don't know what kind of cook you are (home or pro), or how much knife work you do. For my preference you have several quite short knives - I ended up with a lot of big or long knives, but it's horses for courses.

Good luck and enjoy the forum. I think it is a great resource. Watch the sharpening videos.

Adrian
 
I’d like to say thanks for the quick and insightful posts provided thus far. I can see why this forum is so popular, there’s a good tone and useful information without too much of an attitude.

Why didn’t I post BEFORE buying these? Short answer is that I didn’t really know about, or think to look for, this site. I haven’t participated on a forum like this in probably 5-7 years (photography), so it just wasn’t something that I really thought about. The night I bought these was kind of like a session at a Blackjack table. I got excited, then obsessed and eventually spent a few hours into the wee hours of the night, looking at reviews, blogs, YouTube Videos and Chad Ward’s book. I thought I had a grasp on knife types and purposes and then looked for recommendations, price/value, aesthetics and brand reputation. I took the Amazon reviews with a grain of salt and paid more attention to reviews on CKTG, Cutlery and More, and other reputable sellers. As I wrote in the original post, there was some rationale behind each choice, it wasn’t totally mindless (like at the Blackjack table).

Last night, I came across some interesting posts in the forum of the same “How did I do” vein and thought it worthwhile to see what people would say about my choices. My knives will be here in another six weeks, so I thought the discussion would give me some new things to think about. I wasn’t expecting glowing affirmations, just some new discoveries about what I purchased that might be revealing.

@IndoorOutdoorCook – Where are the redundancies? I understand that there are people who say you can do EVERYTHING with a Chef’s knife and paring knife, but it’s not that apparent to me where you think I have overlap?

@Geo87 – When I said, “very best,” I meant very best of the Myabi line.

@Fritzkrieg – I would have liked a longer slicer, two things held me back. I have a small European kitchen and small cutting board. The roasts and hams that we have here are also quite small. This was the last knife I bought and I was starting to feel a bit guilty about the total outlay of cash, so I went with 8” trying to be a good boy.

@mkriggen – Thanks for the words of encouragement. I’m sure when I start opening the boxes, and actually using the knives I’ll reach my own conclusions about whether I am satisfied or made some less than worthy purchases. I’m my own worst critic. To be honest, I should have made this plunge ten years ago. I could have afforded it, I just seemed to get by with my industrial grade chef’s knife.
 
Spot on re the board. That's a whole other ball game!
 
I really have to start reading for comprehension, I initially thought the OP was in the thinking stages.

Anyway, our kitchen is not small but my SO does not feel a big cutting board fits into her kitchen décor. But what I have grown very used to is a 14x17" plastic board (black with a crinkle finish of course) atop of which is a very nice wooden cheese board. I can cut just about anything on that CB, and just push off onto the plastic board. The plastic wipes dry so easy, the CB dries off in the dish rack, and this light weight setup stores nicely atop the microwave, along with a tea kettle. Perfect setup for a small kitchen, and a 10" knife is not at all too big here.


Rick
 
That might be a problem. Also we have a little 3-1/2 year-old running around. I think I'll have to stash the new 26 slot bamboo block in the pantry on a high shelf, towards the back. Not an ideal position. But probably the best option.

I have another noobie question. How is a petty knife different than a so-called utility knife? I noticed that Kramer makes a utility knife, but some sources say that they're not very helpful if you already have a good parer. If they're pointless, why would Kramer have them in his lineup? And why did he skip the petty?
 
The terms petty and utility are generally interchangeable, although utility seems to mainly be used when the knife is 150 mm or more. I find having a petty/ utility knife or two in the 150-180mm range is useful. I'm not a fan of gyutos in the 150-180mm range though; I'd rather have the slimmer profile of a petty/ utility.

Who knows why Zwelling chose not to make Kramers in certain sizes/ profiles. Marketing decision I am sure, and also like not driven by Kramer himself. Seems most they make are in the short range for the style of blade, so maybe they did not see a need for a petty since their slicer is fairly short, and most of the gyutos are only ~210.
 
From the look of it, the Kramer Essential 5" Utility is only a bit bigger than the 4" parer from the same line. The narrow blade and the fat handle probably makes it hard to use as a chopping knife on the cutting board.

For a point of reference, I am a home cook like yourself and have a 150 mm petty that is about 30 mm high at the heel. I use almost exclusively for prepping small veggies like garlic, onion, celery, mushrooms, herbs, etc. It is a lot less blade to keep clean and sharp than say my 10" Kramer Essential chef knife.
 
That might be a problem. Also we have a little 3-1/2 year-old running around. I think I'll have to stash the new 26 slot bamboo block in the pantry on a high shelf, towards the back. Not an ideal position. But probably the best option.

I have another noobie question. How is a petty knife different than a so-called utility knife? I noticed that Kramer makes a utility knife, but some sources say that they're not very helpful if you already have a good parer. If they're pointless, why would Kramer have them in his lineup? And why did he skip the petty?

I wouldn't say a petty/utility knife is pointless, but I would say it is task specific. I like the sub-100mm parer for work off of the board, but personally find a petty in 135-150mm to be an awkward middle child which lacks knuckle clearance between the parer and 150-180mm Gyutos which I like for detail work. As stated in a previous post everyone has their preference based on their specific needs. I have a few in the 135-150mm range and still use them occasionally, but I find for what I use them for, I more often than not reach for a small gyuto as it is more universal, but YMMV.
 
Quick Update #1

The F. Dick 1905 arrived first. I was really impressed by the solid heft and art deco design. As I haven't ever used a laser, I'm not sure my comments hold sway in this forum, but it seems very capable OOTB. As it's one of the first knives to arrive, I've given it some tasks it wasn't really designed for such as filleting a sturgeon, slicing some fruit and cutting a ham. It's first big challenge was earlier this week when we cooked a 9 lb. standing rib roast. It was the first time I've ever cut such a piece of meat with anything other than my no-name industrial Chef's Knife and it handled it without a sweat. In it's first two weeks, it's been a really fantastic knife. I do agree with the comment that a longer slicer is more useful. I can see that 8" is about 2" too short. Still, it's a beautiful (mass produced) knife and it has a super sharp point.

The Kramer Essential 5" Utility Knife arrived second and I have a mixed reaction. I like the profile and geometry of the knife. It felt good in the hand and seems like a very good size for lots of small everyday tasks where pulling out a big Chef's Knife is overkill. It plows through mushrooms, garlic, orange peels and other fruit skins. I used it to do most of the preparation for a whole sturgeon without any problems. I also used it to break down a whole free-range chicken (with the head and feet still attached). After this experience, I'm really curious to to see if the Shun Gokujo Boning Knife will perform better than this, because it's hard to imagine. The Kramer just glided through the chicken like it was soft ice cream. I have come to appreciate the distal taper. The tip of the knife is so sharp, that I really hesitate to bring the food back to the heel region where it feels a bit sluggish. Not sure if this is how all knives of this type and size are, or the Kramer Essentials just aren't as great as the hype.

The Shun Bird's Beak Paring Knife arrived for the wife today and let's just say she wasn't really amused. From my side, I was surprised that it showed up with a cardboard blade protector and no box, no care instructions, nothing to reinforce the hype of the pre-sale marketing. The heel has a very sharp point on it, which is a bit disconcerting considering that it's a knife which requires a lot of thumb use. I know that your fingers should never touch a blade, but if this knife is for peeling potatoes and fruit, this sharp point is sure to be problematic.
 
For the pairing knife, just take some abrasive and ease the point on the heel. Sharpening stone, sand paper, brick, anything you can get to take the sharpness off of the heel for safety. Shouldn't need a sharp heel for a pairing knife I wouldn't think. Should still be able to peel just fine as you are not dulling the cutting edge at all.
 
Get ready for the next phase of your kitchen knife fascination: sharpening. Now that you are getting the knives you have chosen you will have to maintain them. Plenty of threads to explore for starting out with sharpening. Many here including myself are fans of freehand sharpening on Japanese waterstones.

For storage I have had good luck with a magnetic knife rack for years even with young kids around. I keep the rack on the wall alongside the cooktop. As long as they are not messing around with the stove they will not be messing around with the knives. Plenty of non little kid friendly stuff in the kitchen already, adding a few knives to the wall does not make it more dangerous in my opinion.

Getting your wife as excited about kitchen knives as you are is a tricky subject!

Good luck on your journey.

:D
 
Congratulations and good luck with your journey.

I agree that the Shun boning knife is striking visually. It was my 2nd purchase after becoming aware of the higher standard fine kitchen knives offer us. My boning knife was much stiffer than I expected. It also seems much more chippy than any of my other Shun knives. It has required more attention than the others combined in fact.

I couldn't see using it as a fillet knife despite its name. I usually buy my chicken already butchered so it gets fairly little use in my home now. My own opinion on Shun in general, however, is that they tend to feel good in my hand. I like the weight and especially enjoyed my Nakiri.

Please accept my welcome to the forum.
 
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