Newbie Recommendation Request for (Ceramic?) Honing Rod

I’m a home cook and I just started assembling my first upgrade of quality knives. My no-name grooved steel was fine these many years, as I was using a no-name industrial chef’s knife. But, I know my new set deserves much better.

My new chef and utility knives are AEB-L. I have a Nakiri and Gokujo boning knife and two others that are VG-10. And finally, the odd-man out, a Friedr. Dick 1905 Slicer that is most likely X45CrMoV15 (listed as XCrMoVMn) at 55HRc. I have a nice set of four sharpening stones on their way which I have yet to master. Given the above, what type of honing rod would you recommend for everyday use? I’m assuming that a ceramic rod is the way to go? I’d really like to keep this under $100 and preferably somewhere closer to $50.

If you have set of sharpening stones, than I do not really see the need for a sharpening rod. Honing rods are mostly used with softish steel knives (like the Dick you have) that wold not hold the edge long enough anyhow and respond well to honing rod. However with the rest of your knives the Honing rod would be too slow and you would probably just mess up the bevel you have made with the stones.

My advice - practice with your sharpening stones - have a look at sharpening playlist from Jon from JKI - and save yourself the expense of sharpening rod. You do not really need it.

To expand a bit on the previous answer (along with attempting to persuade you not to use a honing rod on Japanese steel):

Hard knives like those made of AEB-L and VG-10 and much harder than anything besides ceramic, borosilicate, or diamond coated rods. Nothing steel will do a thing for you.

The edges of hard steel knives do not fail by bending and folding like soft steel knives, they either wear a rounded edge on the apex or chip. A steel, used properly, lifts the edge of a softer knife back into a straight line until it eventually breaks of, when the knife need to be properly re-sharpened. A serrated steel or ceramic or diamond "hone" will remove metal to restore the edge, but controlling the angle is difficult (or in my case, pretty much impossible). It will also leave a distinct burr that bends easily or breaks off, leaving the edge rough. On a hard steel knife it is fairly easy to use too much pressure on the steel or honing rod and exceed the strength of the steel at the contact point, resulting in tiny cracks that turn into chips under stress.

The best way to "touch up" hard steel edges is to strop them on a fine stone (6000 grit or higher). This will polish the edge a bit since the stone will take off a tiny bit of steel. In a pinch brown cardboard or shopping bags will also work, as will black print newspaper on something flat - the ink has enough abrasiveness to polish the edge a bit, usually carbon on the order of 1 um diameter.

And the last point is that once you get those AEB-L knives sharp, you won't need to touch up more than once a month or so in the home kitchen if you avoid rock chopping or other motions that twist the edge while in contact with the cutting board. Actual sharpening will be a once very six months sort of thing, at least in my experience. I don't use my knives every day though. Edge retention is astonishing if you are used to inexpensive "German" steel knives, and even when they have lost their super sharp edge they will cut better than your old knife due to a much better geometry.

You should also discard any "knife abuse" habits like banging the edge hard on the cutting board or using the tip of the knife to pry. Such actions will surely damage your new knives, as in knocking chips out of the edge or breaking off the tip. Same goes for bones -- firm contact with bones will remove chunks from the edge, especially if you also apply lateral force. Some knives are worse than others, but no RC 61 knife will do well with bone contact.

You won't miss your knife steel. I still use mine on the remnants of my Chicago Cutlery knife assortment, but never on my Tojiro or Korean gyuto.

Peter

I think the picture is a bit clearer. Thanks so much for the quick responses. I'll stick to the higher grit sharpening stone(s). I have a Suehiro Rika 5K and a Naniwa 10,000 on their way. For "touchup's," how would you recommend I proceed? The 10,000 stone by itself? 5,000? Or both in progression?

10k will make a nice stone for a straight razor or single bevel knives. The 5k will be fine for touch ups and as a finisher on double bevels

As to the honing rod, if you feel the need, get a smooth Forschner...about twenty bucks.

Cheers

For touchups you want to strop the blade on a dry stone -- set it down on the bevel and with very light pressure pull it across the stone AWAY from the edge (or edge trailing, not edge into the stone). A couple swipes on each side will do all stropping is going to do for you. This should restore much of the sharpness. Eventually it won't make much difference, and then you need to start a regular sharpening with the 1000 grit stone. It's the same way one should use a steel, just on a flat stone instead.

I'd try the 10000, if that doesn't do anything, try the 5000. If that doesn't do anything, time to sharpen.

Peter

I wouldn't sharpen the Gyuto, utility knife, gokujo, slicer or nakiri beyond 5k. Anything more and you will see your edges failing quickly. Can you tell us more about your knives? Maker perhaps?

mac black rod is really great, i use it quite often.
10k is useless, return that one. rika is fine.

Thanks all for continuing the discussion. The knife details are here:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?t=21680

Also, just to clarify, the Chef's Knife is a Miyabi 9.5 inch, not a Gyoto.

If you don't use a 10,000 grit stone on AEB-L or VG10, what do you recommend it for?

Geopatriot said:

Thanks all for continuing the discussion. The knife details are here:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?t=21680

Also, just to clarify, the Chef's Knife is a Miyabi 9.5 inch, not a Gyoto.

If you don't use a 10,000 grit stone on AEB-L or VG10, what do you recommend it for?

Click to expand...

Chef knife = gyuto.

It's not about the steel type so much as the blade type. The knives you mention are for a myriad of cutting needs and benefit from a toothier edge. 10k and higher stones are generally reserved for yanagi or other slicing tools which only ever see raw protein like fish for example. It's a smoother edge, sharp and slick. Perfect for sashimi and boneless product.