Looking for my first nice Kitchen Knife...

LOCATION
United States



KNIFE TYPE
I am looking for a multi-purpose knife, as well as a paring knife. Two knives that I can do almost anything with.

I am right handed

I like the Japanese Handle. More specifically, the round or D handles.

For the larger of the two knives, anything between 6" to 9". For the paring knife, anything between 2" and 4".

I don't need a stainless knife, in fact, I would prefer a knife with the Blue #2 steel.

Absolute maximum for both of these knives is $300.



KNIFE USE
These are strictly for use at home.

I typically use a Pinch Grip.

I mostly use Slice, followed by Push-Cut, and Walking.

I would love a Damascus knife, but I hate the hammer look.

I want to be able to use the knife directly out of the box.

I want the blade to hold an edge for quite a while.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
I use a wood cutting board.

I do not know how to sharpen my own knives, but I would love to learn.

I will purchase sharpening equipment along side these knives, maxing out at $75-$100



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
I have done some research, and have been looking at the:

~Tanaka Damascus Gyuto 210mm

~Anryu Kurouchi Suminagashi Petty 150mm

~Anryu Kurouchi Suminagashi Gyuto 210mm

~Kajiwara Damascus Santoku 165mm

However, I haven't done much of any research for the paring knife. I figured once I selected my primary, I could base the paring off of the remaining budget.

You're limiting yourself by "shopping" one store/website. May I suggest casting a little wider net and see what some of the sponsoring retail vendors on this site have to offer. Particularly in the US these are Japanese Knife Imports, Epicurean Edge and Korin. They all have very good, entry level Gyuto (Chef) knives and sharpening gear that would suit you well. A full listing is here:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...ized-Vendor-List?p=25439&viewfull=1#post25439

Sounds like you're looking for a 210 to 240mm, Wa handled knife. My preference for knives is stainless clad or stainless so I won't go into specific blue steel or other carbon. Have owned a Gesshin Ginga carbon that would easily get scary sharp, liked it a lot but not a fan of the groovy colors it would turn.

For a good quality and relatively inexpensive paring the Suisin Western Inox is tough to beat at about $75. For this knife I suggest stainless because you'll likely be cutting citrus and other fruit. Stainless good.

If you would like it to hold an edge as long as possible, maybe you shouldn't limit yourself to blue 2. It may hold up longer than white steel, but I would consider something in blue super if you're pretty sure you want carbon. I've also had good luck with Takefu's V2 and actually prefer it in some cases to blue 2. That said, I've got a small handful of blue 2 knives that I enjoy.

I'd suggest taking a look at Japanese Knife Imports, Korin, or Epicurean Edge's websites to see if there is something that looks interesting. BTW, there is a 10% discount to forum members at EE.

Learning how to properly apply a microbevel while sharpening can add durability to most steels.

Oh, and some people do enjoy the groovy colors.

daveb
Thanks for pointing me at the list of sponsored vendors, I took a look at quite a few and was able to expand my search greatly. Adding four more knives to the list (below). I don't mind the groovy colors at all, in fact, I do somewhat like the patina that develops. I like your suggestion for a stainless pairing knife. I most definitely will be using it on more acidic and moist foods (heh... moist).

chinacats
I am a bit new to the high-carbon scene, as we are just starting to review alloys in my engineering materials classes, so I appreciate you pointing me in the direction of Blue Super as well. Is Aogami Super the same as Blue Super? If not, how do they compare? Learning to sharpen knives properly is definitely on my agenda for getting nice knives, so I will be able to microbevel soon.


The expanded list:

Gyoto
Tanaka Damascus Gyuto 210mm
Anryu Kurouchi Suminagashi Petty 150mm
Anryu Kurouchi Suminagashi Gyuto 210mm
Zakuri 210mm Aogami Super Kurouchi Gyuto
Chef's Knife (Gyuto) - 8-1/4 in. (210mm), Traditional Handle
Nashiji Chef's Knife (Gyuto) - 8 1/4 in. (210mm)

"Santoku"
Kajiwara Damascus Santoku 165mm
Zakuri 165mm Blue Super Kurouchi Tosagata Bocho

So, the santoku is quite a bit different (mainly length) than than the gyutos...I have the Zakuri tosagata bocho (mine is blue 1) and it works great as a middle size knife but doesn't replace a gyuto. I happen to love Zakuri but it is truly a rustic knife. If you buy from Jon (Japanese Knife Imports) you can get him to give you a professional edge on whatever you buy and you will be assured of the quality. Make sure and call him to place an order so you can run any questions by him. He also may have a better recommendation for your specific needs.

Yes, blue super and AO super are same (aogami super). If you are interested in the steels you should have a look at Gators steel chart. I have the app on my phone and find it quite useful--well maybe educational or entertaining...

Cheers

In your situation, I'd find out how long before Jon gets a re-stock on the Kochi line.

chinacats said:

In your situation, I'd find out how long before Jon gets a re-stock on the Kochi line.

Click to expand...

April- June depending on a few things

After eliminating the smaller santokus and the short gyoto on my list, as well as eliminating a few others, I think I have narrowed my primary down to three, all about the same price:

Anryu Kurouchi Suminagashi Gyuto 210mm

Pros:
Oval handle
Damascus Edge

Cons:
Website (This Site Not Allowed Here.com)
White Steel

Zakuri 210mm Aogami Super Kurouchi Gyuto

Pros:
Can get an amazing edge ootb
AO Super steel

Cons:
Sharpening service "temporarily unavailable," might not be able to get professional edge.
Bigger, octagonal handle

Product Description for Chef's Knife (Gyuto) - 8-1/4 in. (210mm), Traditional Handle

Pros:
A little lighter
Extremely high HRC!! (64)

Cons:
AO1
Extremely high HRC!! (64)




Any additional thoughts or comparisons?



Edit: Jon is in my new (first) knife thread?! WOW!! I am so honored to have you chime in! Any tips for beginners?

I'll just throw this into the mix http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn/?sort=newest. Don't get hung up on hardness; it's generally not a good indicator of steel performance.

Looks like some good additions to your list. Most find the Gyuto more versatile than the Santoku. Like being able to do tip work. Don't give too much weight to Santoku being only for girls.:groucho:

My dad has a Shun Santoku that I use when I am back in my hometown, and I love it! However, he also has several larger knives that I use for precision work, even though they are nowhere near as nice as his Shun. (Yes I realize Shun aren't the best by far, lets try to stay on topic) As such, I totally get why a Gyuto is better than a Santoku for my individual needs.

I took a look at Japanese Natural Stones, and honestly, none of the knives there caught my eye. Some nice stuff, but not really super intriguing for me.

The octagonal handles are generally considered a step up from the oval and are the traditional (I think) Wa handles. You are prob a phone call away from losing the "Cons" on the Zakuri.

Meanwhile this may be informative:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/19961-Japanese-Handle-Styles

Huh, interesting to know! Thanks for the link on the handle styles!

I think I will be calling Jon over at Japanese knife imports tomorrow!

So, moving on to paring knives!! Is it fully worth spending a full $70 on a paring knife? Or could I get on with one cheaper? I have had the Gesshin 90mm paring knife suggested to me, which is $30...

What about the Suisin Inox Western 80mm?